Starmer

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TopBadger
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Re: Starmer

Post by TopBadger » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:43 pm

monkey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:06 pm
Labour would not win an election campaigning for a 2nd referendum. Brexit split the Party and their voters. It's why many in the red wall voted for Johnson. Starmer would be sensible not to try and repeat that.
Oh, I'm not suggesting to campaign on it... just get in then do it.
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Re: Starmer

Post by monkey » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:17 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:43 pm
monkey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:06 pm
Labour would not win an election campaigning for a 2nd referendum. Brexit split the Party and their voters. It's why many in the red wall voted for Johnson. Starmer would be sensible not to try and repeat that.
Oh, I'm not suggesting to campaign on it... just get in then do it.
So go into an election saying they'll not do much, then do a lot? That sort of thing gets noticed. (Most) People aren't stupid and don't like being lied to.

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Starmer

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:15 pm

Most people don't pay attention and don't notice being lied to
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued

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Re: Starmer

Post by WFJ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:32 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:17 pm
(Most) People aren't stupid and don't like being lied to.
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:15 pm
Most people don't pay attention and don't notice being lied to
Cue B-roll footage of Boris Johnson waving with the caption "80 seat majority".

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Re: Starmer

Post by dyqik » Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:51 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:17 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:43 pm
monkey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:06 pm
Labour would not win an election campaigning for a 2nd referendum. Brexit split the Party and their voters. It's why many in the red wall voted for Johnson. Starmer would be sensible not to try and repeat that.
Oh, I'm not suggesting to campaign on it... just get in then do it.
So go into an election saying they'll not do much, then do a lot? That sort of thing gets noticed. (Most) People aren't stupid[citation needed] and don't like being lied to[citation needed].

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Re: Starmer

Post by nekomatic » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:12 am

monkey wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:17 pm
So go into an election saying they'll not do much, then do a lot? That sort of thing gets noticed.
No, I just think Labour’s strategy is to be led by public opinion rather than try to lead it. I’m sure most of the leadership know that Brexit is sh.t and the only way to improve it is to start undoing it, but they judge that trying to campaign for that at the moment is still too hazardous, so they’re going to sit and wait for the mood to turn against it to the point where starting to undo it is overwhelmingly popular.

I think it’s sh.t that that’s where we find ourselves and I honestly don’t know whether they’re right about the toxicity of daring to stand up and say so, but I’m pretty sure that it’s easy to take a 60:40 poll lead for ‘it was a bad idea’ and wishfully think it into a mass desire for reopening the whole hideous debate - the other side can still call up some heavy artillery if they want to, and I wouldn’t be sure how well our defences would cope. I do think the mood might see a step change once the Conservatives finally get kicked out though.
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Grumble
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Re: Starmer

Post by Grumble » Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:23 pm

So, odds on Starmer being replaced by Andy Burnham before the next election?
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discovolante
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Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:47 pm

Well Burnham has previously said he has no plans to return to Westminster. He might change his mind I guess but if I was him I'd probably just want to stick to what I was doing, without having to travel to London all the time if nothing else. But then I'm just a lazy person and not a weird politician.
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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:47 pm

Starmer is polling extremely well with 2029 Tory voters who are now thinking about Labour -he outperforms either Tory candidate.

He might be the perfect candidate for the specific swing voters Labour needs.
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Re: Starmer

Post by WFJ » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:45 pm

If the Tories pick Truss as expected, or even if they pick Sunak, Starmer is going to suddenly appear like Mr Charisma in comparison.

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Re: Starmer

Post by nekomatic » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:45 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:47 pm
Starmer is polling extremely well with 2029 Tory voters
So he’s looking good for a win in 2034 then?

Seriously though, I find it as depressing as anyone that he can’t tell me what I want to hear, but pragmatically the only way to really steer politics in this country in the right direction remains to persuade Labour to endorse PR then get Labour into power. After that you can all do what the f.ck you want.
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Re: Starmer

Post by jimbob » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:47 pm

https://youtu.be/fUlzIKruFkw

Interesting take on Starmer by James O'Brien
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:00 am

jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:47 pm
https://youtu.be/fUlzIKruFkw

Interesting take on Starmer by James O'Brien
Yes, Starmer is a lawyer who highly values due process and procedure, which is also why he rarely called for tory ministers to resign when they did dodgy stuff.
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Re: Starmer

Post by snoozeofreason » Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:56 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:00 am
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:47 pm
https://youtu.be/fUlzIKruFkw

Interesting take on Starmer by James O'Brien
Yes, Starmer is a lawyer who highly values due process and procedure, which is also why he rarely called for tory ministers to resign when they did dodgy stuff.
At the risk of giving one of my hobby horses another trot round the paddock, his past as a lawyer - and particularly as former head of the DPP - does make it all the more frustrating that he has so little of substance to say about the crisis in the criminal justice system.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?

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Re: Starmer

Post by monkey » Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:57 pm

An MRP poll is giving Labour a 314 seat majority - clicky. The percentages are in line with traditional polling.

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discovolante
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Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:30 pm

To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Gfamily » Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:33 pm

discovolante wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:30 pm
What is this shite? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65079772
NOx-ious policy setting.

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Re: Starmer

Post by headshot » Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:04 pm

Gotta make old people vote for them again.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Grumble » Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:10 pm

What’s so hard about accepting expert suggestions?
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Re: Starmer

Post by Martin_B » Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:00 am

Grumble wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:10 pm
What’s so hard about accepting expert suggestions?
Because people who know what they're talking about rarely agree with bigoted prejudices?
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Re: Starmer

Post by Gfamily » Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:23 am

headshot wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:04 pm
Gotta make old people vote for them again.
But why the f.ck isn't Labour calling this out as a blatant case of Tories being a "clanging bell" - signifying nothing.
Better that than...
Labour backed the plans to ban the sale of nitrous oxide. Shadow culture secretary Lucy Powell said its use "causes a huge amount of littering disruption and anti-social behaviour".
If 'litter; is a driver, we would be better cracking down on people who leave little bags of dogshit all over the place.
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Re: Starmer

Post by TimW » Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:18 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:23 am
If 'litter; is a driver, we would be better cracking down on people who leave little bags of dogshit all over the place.
How do you know it's dogshit?

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Re: Starmer

Post by jdc » Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:45 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:23 am
If 'litter; is a driver, we would be better cracking down on people who leave little bags of dogshit all over the place.
Steve Rolles has been pointing out on Twitter that sale for consumption is illegal, littering is illegal, and driving under the influence is illegal; all the concerns that people are raising can already be dealt with under existing legislation. His suggestion was "Maybe deploy existing laws more effectively (as the ACMD have suggested) rather than just doubling the max prison sentence under the MDA?"

It's just performative "tough on crime" b.llsh.t innit. Or dogshit. One of the two.

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Re: Starmer

Post by headshot » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:44 pm

jdc wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:45 pm
It's just performative "tough on crime" b.llsh.t innit. Or dogshit. One of the two.
It’s both, until you open the bag to find out. Schrödinger’s dogshit.

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Re: Starmer

Post by jimbob » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:11 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:33 pm
discovolante wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:30 pm
What is this shite? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65079772
NOx-ious policy setting.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... dApp_Other
A minister who has admitted to using cocaine being sent out to announce a clampdown on laughing gas. Totally normal. A home secretary who can’t be trusted to stay on message. Totally normal. A government prepared to break international law by deporting refugees. Totally normal. An environment secretary permanently at war with herself and the farming community. Totally normal. A chancellor unbothered by a 4% hit to GDP from Brexit. Totally normal. A prime minister who finds all the above totally normal. Totally normal.
The rest is worth reading too
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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