Cass Report into Gender Identify Services - myths debunked

[IvanV]

And banning them for under 18s is, or course, a complete ban on puberty blockers. Because you have to take them during puberty. The whole point of them is to allow an adult to make a choice.

The ban is specifically for use in gender dysphoria, not other conditions. But, as you say, it is a complete ban in that case. As Stonewall point out, that goes even beyond what Cass said.

I'm afraid I had been gulled into thinking that Cass was getting us to a sensible place in this. The early posts in this thread seemed to confirm that.

[IvanV]

It seems the present government is just as conservative as the previous one on these matters.

The government successfully defended a legal challenge to the emergency puberty blockers ban (BBC) brought in by the previous government. Streeting seems to consider the ban is consistent with the Cass Review, even though others have pointed out it goes even beyond what the Cass Review says. Streeting says that policy must be evidence led. But there seems to be a wide diversity of views over what the implications of that are.

[bjn]

The BMA isn’t happy about the Cass review and is going to establish a group of professionals to evaluate it for methodological flaws. Meanwhile they ask that all implementations of its recommendations be paused.

https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre ... ung-people

[Tristan]

Yeah, Trade Unions often do politically motivated things.

The motion includes that they should:

“ii. Lobby and work with other relevant organisations and stakeholders to oppose the implementation of the recommendations made by the Cass Review;”

Sounds like they’ve already made up their minds.

[Gfamily]

Of f.ck off
"The Association believes clinicians, patients and families should make decisions about treatment on the best available evidence, not politicians"

[bjn]

Attack the man and not the message, nice.

[Tristan]

Yeah, staff unions are where the best science happens.

[monkey]

Yeah, staff unions are where the best science happens.

The BMA isn't made up of receptionists.

[Tristan]

Yeah, staff unions are where the best science happens.

The BMA isn't made up of receptionists.

No. But it’s a trade union with committees of people who want to be active in a trade union. They’re activists.

[Tristan]

Good column on this by Sonia Sodha in The Observer today.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ass-review

[dyqik]

It’s an article in the Observer by a well respected journalist about a topic that is pretty relevant to a group like this despite its attempts to put its head in the sand. To equate that to fascism is, frankly, dumb as f.ck.

Anyway, I thought you were done. f.ck off.

This topic is a prime example of bad science, I agree. Your argument from authority - of a newspaper opinion column - here is just another example of it. I assume you think that Owen Jones's columns are also authoritative.

The column is making an argument for doing harm and increasing suicide rates, by not giving puberty blockers, with the premise that this is doing no harm. It can immediately be dismissed because of that massive logical contradiction in the subheading.

Note that puberty blockers do not mean transitioning. They mean delaying making decisions about transitioning.

[Tristan]

It’s not argument from authority. It’s posting an interesting article about the topic. It’s no more argument from authority than someone posting “ooh look, the BMA don’t like it”.

And it’s not fascism, no matter what you might like to think.

[dyqik]

It’s not argument from authority. It’s posting an interesting article about the topic. It’s no more argument from authority than someone posting “ooh look, the BMA don’t like it”.

And it’s not fascism, no matter what you might like to think.

It's about removing a trait you believe to be undesirable from society, by harming those that display it. Sounds pretty fascist adjacent to me.

[Tristan]

Fascist adjacent? Seriously, go f.ck yourself. You are not a serious person.

It’s about ensuring we understand what’s actually going on with these children and not putting them on potentially harmful medical pathways when they might not be appropriate and may he harmful. For some it’s the right thing, but by no means for all. That’s why the Cass report called for more robust research and the ability to continue through trials.

But you seem to be fine with unevidenced medical interventions on children regardless of the harm those could be doing to many.

[Gfamily]

No evidence of harm though.

And PBs are regularly prescribed for young people with precocious puberty, without apparent long term harm.

[dyqik]

Fascist adjacent? Seriously, go f.ck yourself. You are not a serious person.

It’s about ensuring we understand what’s actually going on with these children and not putting them on potentially harmful medical pathways when they might not be appropriate and may he harmful. For some it’s the right thing, but by no means for all. That’s why the Cass report called for more robust research and the ability to continue through trials.

But you seem to be fine with unevidenced medical interventions on children regardless of the harm those could be doing to many.

You, and the Cass report, are fine with those medical interventions being given to children when they aren't potentially transgender children. So it's the identity of those being treated that you object to. Opposing medical treatment for those you find undesirable (as evidenced by your widespread posting of anti transgender material over many years) is fascism adjacent.

The Cass report deliberately excluded the evidence about this medical intervention from experts who were in favor of it, and excluded evidence of harm from withholding it.

[Tristan]

How hard is it to understand that a treatment given for one purpose might not be appropriate to be given to people for a different purpose? This is basic stuff.

Precocious puberty is very different. It's given to allow kids to go through puberty at the right time, when they come off them. It isn't something that puts them on an entirely different medical pathway, which is what was happening at GIDS.

And to reiterate my previous point Dyqik - go f.ck yourself. Apparently you used to follow me on socials, but I have no idea who you actually are as I assume you handle isn't related to your actual name.

[dyqik]

How hard is it to understand that a treatment given for one purpose might not be appropriate to be given to people for a different purpose? This is basic stuff.

Precocious puberty is very different. It's given to allow kids to go through puberty at the right time, when they come off them. It isn't something that puts them on an entirely different medical pathway, which is what was happening at GIDS.

It's so basic that you've completely missed it, and are demanding that action be taken that will cause harm.

Withholding puberty blockers from gender dysphoric teenagers increases the risk of suicide substantially. This is a known harm. You are citing unknown risks as a reason to not mitigate this known harm.

The "logic" for this is that teenagers can't understand their gender dysphoria, and so must be forced into one gender against their wishes, rather than delaying that until they have a better understanding and can make an informed choice.

[lpm]

I don't see any point to arguing with fascists and bigots.

As a reminder, dyqik has labeled the following bigots for discussing biology: JQH, IvanV, jimbob, Bewildered, TopBadger, Martin Y, Nekomatic, Tessa K and Woodchopper.

This is what extremism looks like - believing a bunch of progressive lefties have become fascists.

[dyqik]

I don't see any point to arguing with fascists and bigots.

As a reminder, dyqik has labeled the following bigots for discussing biology: JQH, IvanV, jimbob, Bewildered, TopBadger, Martin Y, Nekomatic, Tessa K and Woodchopper.

This is what extremism looks like - believing a bunch of progressive lefties have become fascists.

No, I haven't.

Please stop lying.

[lpm]

You most certainly have.

[dyqik]

You most certainly have.

Liar.

[lpm]

You do understand that this forum is searchable?

You labelled anyone talking about biology as bigoted. Given nearly all of us consider biology to be a relevant factor, that rules you out from having a civilised conversation with nearly all of us.

You are a shouty extremist who prefers to shut down debate with insults.

[dyqik]

You do understand that this forum is searchable?

You labelled anyone talking about biology as bigoted. Given nearly all of us consider biology to be a relevant factor, that rules you out from having a civilised conversation with nearly all of us.

You are a shouty extremist who prefers to shut down debate with insults.

Yes, I do know this forum is searchable. Which raises the question of why you can't find anywhere where I've said what you claim I've said.

I don't think there's any serious discussion of biology in this thread, either.

[El Pollo Diablo]

Some of the less illuminating recent posts have been hived off into The Pit, here. Apologies if that affects the flow of the conversation, but I blame you c.nts.