Who's next?

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philbo
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Re: Who's next?

Post by philbo » Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:34 am

Blackcountryboy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:52 am
We had an active Conservative at work, who said, in answer to our criticisms of Stokes, that he had not come over like that when they were interviewing the potential candidates. We suggested that they should deselect him at the next election; he said we can’t do that, it is too damaging to the party.
It appears the party is more impprtant than the country.
Unfortunately, this is the attitude of most local party types: the whole "he didn't come over like that when interviewing" is a pathetic excuse, because (apart from national party catastrophes like we've just had) for most seats in the country that committee is choosing the local MP, and it's easy to appear as the person they want to see for half an hour.

I don't think it's only "party more important than country": the people on these committees also don't want to admit they made a mistake.

Once selected & especially once elected, the barrier for removing an MP is very high.. I wonder who set those rules :roll:

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TopBadger
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Re: Who's next?

Post by TopBadger » Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:11 pm

Seriously? Jenrick tops the first poll? Just when you think they can sink no lower.
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IvanV
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Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:17 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:11 pm
Seriously? Jenrick tops the first poll? Just when you think they can sink no lower.
That was my initial reaction. But then I remembered that, with the present candidate list, inevitably they must sink lower. For the only candidate who isn't lower than they have already sunk is Tugendhat, and he has no chance. It seems to me from the first ballot that the winner is likely to be one of Jenrick, Badenoch or Cleverly.

This is actually what some plausible commentators said would happen. It is the common reaction of political parties in such a pickle to start by staying loyal to the very thing that destroyed them, and so initially react in entirely the wrong way. It will only be after the next period continues the disaster that maybe some group will be able to start to reconstruct a sensible party instead of Blukip.

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Sciolus
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Sciolus » Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:48 pm

Yes, it's what they did 1997-200whatever, though I don't think any of that lot then were as atrocious as the current candidates.

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Grumble
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Grumble » Fri Sep 06, 2024 5:42 am

Sciolus wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:48 pm
Yes, it's what they did 1997-200whatever, though I don't think any of that lot then were as atrocious as the current candidates.
There is a smaller pool of worse candidates. I looked at the numbers they got and laughed because I had forgotten how few MPs they have.
where once I used to scintillate
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IvanV
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Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:33 pm

The one so obscure I can never remember his name - quickly looks it up - Mel Stride, is unsurprisingly out. And so we are left with Jenrick - who came top again, Badenoch, Cleverley and Tugendhat. There's a widening gap behind Badenoch so it is looking more likely the choice offered to the party members after the party conference will be Jenrick and Badenoch. I remain astonished that Jenrick is leading, I couldn't imagine him having any popularity. But the other two right wingers look equally unelectable from this distance.

With four candidates remaining, we've arrived at a weird parallel with the Labour leadership election, when Milliband resigned after losing the 2015 election. The 4 candidates then were 3 continuity candidates, and someone else. Just like here we have, in effect, 3 continuity candidates and someone else. And similarly to 2015, numerous Labour voters were pissed off with continuity, as they felt Labour hadn't done enough for them under Blair/Brown, which is a large part of why Labour did so badly in the 2015 election. The Tories have also been kicked out because the voters are similarly pissed off with continuity in the Tories, which has amounted to continuing chaos and inequality and weak economic performance, even if Sunak was quite as bad as Truss.

One difference is that in the Labour case the someone else was an extremist - Corbyn - and the continuity candidates were moderates. Whereas for the conservatives, it's the odd one out who is the moderate. In each case, we would say the odd one had no chance, at this point, but it didn't transpire that way for Labour.

For the more important difference is that Labour then had a system facilitating entry-ists to quickly join the party and elect the non-continuity candidate. But because those entry-ists did not represent the broader requirements of Labour voters either, the non-continuity candidate was even worse than the continuity ones. It was the wrong kind of non-continuity candidate for Labour success. The actual Conservative party membership rather like the continuity candidates, and rules prevent entry-ists suddenly piling in and choosing the odd-one-out. For having observed how Corbyn was elected, all political parties have now ensured their rules prevent something like that happening.

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TopBadger
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Re: Who's next?

Post by TopBadger » Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:42 pm

Is it fair to describe Corbyn as an extremist?

I'm not sure he was seen that way by the voting public. Lets not forget that, although Corbyn lost his GE, he got more votes in total than Starmer did for his win.
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IvanV
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Re: Who's next?

Post by IvanV » Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:35 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:42 pm
Is it fair to describe Corbyn as an extremist?
Corbyn had friendly relationships with dictators, including right wing ones, and by their friends shall you know them...

But even if he wasn't the closet authoritarian I worried he might be, ultimately it depends how extreme you require your extremists to be to attach that term to them. Even ignoring my suspicions, he is as extreme in his direction as the right-wingers in the Conservative party, who I attach the same word to.

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