Getting Brexit done

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
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Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:37 am

TimW wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 am
Latest results from the European Social Survey

A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.

It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
Pity that its already happened.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by JQH » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:36 am

TimW wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 am
Latest results from the European Social Survey

A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.

It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
Too f.cking late. We're out.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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shpalman
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by shpalman » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:45 am

There's still chance to sneak a BINO through though?
molto tricky

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Gfamily
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Gfamily » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:49 am

TimW wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 am
Latest results from the European Social Survey

A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.

It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
Though it is possible that convinced Brexiters would choose not to participate in The European Social Survey
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct

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Martin Y
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Martin Y » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:26 pm

shpalman wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:45 am
There's still chance to sneak a BINO through though?
Time, perhaps, but nobody to do it. The people whose job it would be have nailed their colours to the blazing, sinking wreckage.

Remember when they promised we would have a new deal with the EU sorted before we even triggered Article 50? That was just 4 years ago. And the dog has been eating their homework every backward step of the way from there to here.

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:21 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:26 pm

Remember when they promised we would have a new deal with the EU sorted before we even triggered Article 50? That was just 4 years ago. And the dog has been eating their homework every backward step of the way from there to here.
Hah typical Remoaner!

We don't need no stinking EU trade deals as we will easily replace them with new and better deals with other countries.

Liam Fox promised us 40 trade deals to go by March 2019 and here we are a mere 18 months later with ... 20 ... including such trading titans as Kosovo, Palestine and the Seychelles.

That's some record of delivery, suck up the will'o'the'people, Remoaners!
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TimW
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TimW » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:03 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:37 am
TimW wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 am
Latest results from the European Social Survey

A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.

It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
Pity that its already happened.
I don't know really. For all those who think that this place is a democracy, we voted to leave and left. So we can say that's done and nobody has betrayed willy the people.

What next? Well, let's rejoin if it's what the people want.

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TimW
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by TimW » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:14 am

Gfamily wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:49 am
TimW wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:02 am
Latest results from the European Social Survey

A newly released survey found just 35% of British people supporting Brexit, with 57% wanting to rejoin the European Union.

It's time to knock it on the head then.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit- ... -eu-2020-6
Though it is possible that convinced Brexiters would choose not to participate in The European Social Survey
How about if it was known here as UK Opinion?

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Brightonian
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Brightonian » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pm

Great Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bjn » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am

Brightonian wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Great Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
It looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am

It's a good thread and I'd agree with bjn that they haven't got to the end of their Brexit epiphany just yet.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:20 am

bjn wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am
Brightonian wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Great Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
It looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.
However BTL they are still cranking out the same Quitling canards:-

1) It's just more Project Fear ... though what would be the point of anyone fearmongering over a fait accompli, regardless of what anyone says now we are all about to unavoidably find out whether Project Fear turns out to be Project Reality.

2) Cakeism. It won't happen because they need us more than them ... while speculative investors from all over the rEU are smacking their lips at the imminent fire-sale of ex-pat assets and the Spanish tourism sector brushes up on their German/Dutch/French/Polish.

3) It is the mean EU being big meanies ... it as almost as if after 40 years of Brits moaning and lying about the size of their Extrawurst the EU didn't fancy self-immolating the entire basis of their post-war political, economic and social system just to maintain some dipsticks' delusions of Empire.

4) It is all the Remoaners fault, if only they had stuck their fingers in their ears and went lalalala with the rest of us it would all be fine by now.

5) Remainer Concern Troll is Concerned ... despite claiming to have voted Remain in 2016 apparently 4 years of watching all the Leavers claims turning into vapour while the worst fears of the Remainers were fully-realised has somehow convinced them the Leavers were right all along ... because that's definitely how cognitive biases work.

They've learnt nothing and a year from now when a Hard Brexit has compounded the Corona-Crunch I don't imagine anything will have changed.
Last edited by Little waster on Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 am

bjn wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am
Brightonian wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Great Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
It looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.
Looks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by bmforre » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:26 am

bjn wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am
Brightonian wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Great Twitter thread (assuming it's true) about British family who've only just now understood what Brexit means: https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/12 ... 86240?s=19
It looks more like they still don't understand what it means and that the reality of it is causing quite a bit of cognitive dissonance.
I strongly agree.

To me the deal that Norway got looks better and better. We pay money of course but can afford that, while we keep the freedom to shield our farming that has to face the Way-Up-North conditions round about the Arctic circle, and our fishing. Surely when a small country with 5 million people can do so well and over long time that demonstrates the arrangements we have are quite good and not unfair?

Yet there is a powerful political fringe that wants to have us out. After the Brexit vote they looked forward to the Great Success that was sure to result and would encourage Norway to exit too. The majority of these politicians are still unable to see that Brexit is bad. Minority parties get many representatives in our parliament and will try to do considerable deal-trading round the election coming up in a year.

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Lew Dolby » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 am
Looks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
AIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.

[my understanding may well be flawed !!]

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Woodchopper
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:47 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 am
Looks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
AIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.

[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
Yes, those as well probably.

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by sTeamTraen » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:30 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:47 pm
Lew Dolby wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm
AIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.

[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
Yes, those as well probably.
Those are requirements to apply for French nationality. France, like most civilised countries, does not impose a requirement for you to have any level of language proficiency before you can become a legal resident; for one thing, it might stop a multinational company from sending a manager there for a posting. I can, however, think of one country that is planning to impose such a requirement... :roll:

I really want to know if that Twitter thread is real. I'm currently leaning towards it being fake, perhaps based on a couple of crumbs of truth. The author tweeted earlier that it was indeed real (having had some pushback in the comments), but I am skeptical. He seems to be a professional writer and the amusing anecdotes are coming rather thick and fast (oo-er missus). The thread has 50,000 likes and has presumably been seen by people who live nearby and would know exactly who these individuals are. The "idiot son", in particular, might object to that description.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:35 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:47 pm
Lew Dolby wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 am
Looks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
AIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.

[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
Yes, those as well probably.
Yeahbbut, as BTL points out, Cary Grant apparently lived in the South of France in the 50s.

So there you have it, a wealthy American film star lived in France 70 years ago so therefore there's no reason why two random Brit pensioners can't just retire there in the 2020s if they want to.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by shpalman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:35 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 am
Looks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
AIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.

[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
The sufficient income thing (plus some kind of health cover) is something you need to demonstrate if you want to stay more than three months. This is an EU-wide rule which the UK never got around to implementing.

I got round to doing it here after about three years... for within-EU (at the time) immigration they're relatively easy going.

(The health cover thing is mainly to show that you had health cover in the place you're coming from, i.e. you didn't go to Italy just to get that. Then you have to go to the health service once a year with your work contract to keep your Italian heath card activated, until you get permanent residence.)

To get permanent residence in Italy I did the five year thing but there wasn't any test of my Italian. Officially I think any language out of Italian, French, German or English is ok.

(ETA: citizenship is something else, which I think seems to involve just getting your original country to say that you're not a criminal and then waiting several years for nothing to happen.)
molto tricky

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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:38 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:35 pm
Officially I think any language out of Italian, French, German or English
You don't fool us, shouting while waving your hands in the air doesn't count as a language. :P
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shpalman
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by shpalman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:44 pm

Little waster wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:38 pm
shpalman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:35 pm
Officially I think any language out of Italian, French, German or English
You don't fool us, shouting while waving your hands in the air doesn't count as a language. :P
Whereas English is just... shouting? And making stupid stereotypical "joke" assumptions about foreigners?
molto tricky

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:53 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:44 pm
Little waster wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:38 pm
shpalman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:35 pm
Officially I think any language out of Italian, French, German or English
You don't fool us, shouting while waving your hands in the air doesn't count as a language. :P
Whereas English is just... shouting? And making stupid stereotypical "joke" assumptions about foreigners?
Exactly and if they don't understand you, you just aren't shouting loud enough.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:35 pm
Lew Dolby wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:45 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:21 am
Looks like they had planned on retiring in France. To do that they'd need to get a residence permit, and to get that they'd need to demonstrate that they had sufficient income, which for a pensioner would be difficult.
AIUI from friends who achieved it a year or three ago but after the referendum, they also need to show some level of master of the language and that they've lived and paid their taxes in France for a min of 5 years.

[my understanding may well be flawed !!]
The sufficient income thing (plus some kind of health cover) is something you need to demonstrate if you want to stay more than three months. This is an EU-wide rule which the UK never got around to implementing.

I got round to doing it here after about three years... for within-EU (at the time) immigration they're relatively easy going.

(The health cover thing is mainly to show that you had health cover in the place you're coming from, i.e. you didn't go to Italy just to get that. Then you have to go to the health service once a year with your work contract to keep your Italian heath card activated, until you get permanent residence.)

To get permanent residence in Italy I did the five year thing but there wasn't any test of my Italian. Officially I think any language out of Italian, French, German or English is ok.

(ETA: citizenship is something else, which I think seems to involve just getting your original country to say that you're not a criminal and then waiting several years for nothing to happen.)
Yep, very similar for the residence process for Mrs BoaF, who's from a third country (Mexico). Proof of income, proof of address and health insurance were required, but not language (although the entire process including an interview is in Portuguese, so there's a bit of a de factor requirement). And being married to an EU citizen helped.

Citizenship by naturalisation requires five years of pre-existing residence, clean criminal record from home and away, official language certificates and 'proof of effective links to the Portuguese community'. I shall be applying a few months after I defend my PhD.

Alternatively there's a few countries that do 'investment visas', where you just invest a huge load of cash (€500k in Portugal, over a million in others) e.g. by buying property or a business. That's proving a bit controversial here, because any property worth about €350k+ in the Lisbon area gets put on the market for €500k and bought by a foreigner (usually Chinese people) so they and their family can get EU residence. Not great for locals trying to get on the property ladder! In those cases the visa holder has to reside in Portugal for 6 months of the year.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Little waster
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by Little waster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:39 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm

Alternatively there's a few countries that do 'investment visas', where you just invest a huge load of cash (€500k in Portugal, over a million in others) e.g. by buying property or a business. That's proving a bit controversial here, because any property worth about €350k+ in the Lisbon area gets put on the market for €500k and bought by a foreigner (usually Chinese people) so they and their family can get EU residence. Not great for locals trying to get on the property ladder! In those cases the visa holder has to reside in Portugal for 6 months of the year.
My ex was a budding journalist. Her biggest scoop was breaking a story on how such a system was being misused in Canada.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/0 ... 1593534445

IIRC. Prince Edward Island had a scheme where Korean and Chinese nationals could jump the immigration queue by investing a significant sum into an existing business in PEI, with the idea they would bring both an injection of investment and people into an area struggling with rapid depopulation.

Invariably most investors would simply hand over the cash (around CAD 30,000) without any regard where the money went and no expectation of ever seeing it again and then just move to Toronto or Vancouver without ever as much as visiting PEI.

The suggestion was the local authorities were fully-aware of this and just chose to turn a blind-eye to it with half the cash pocketed by various middle-men.

To the Chinese it was considered just the price of doing business, no different than slipping a low-level bureaucrat some cash to expediate some paperwork, a culture of "gift-giving" going back millennia, ironically cited as one of the reasons some of the Chinese immigrants were looking to get away from.
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Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by lpm » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:27 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm
Alternatively there's a few countries that do 'investment visas', where you just invest a huge load of cash (€500k in Portugal, over a million in others) e.g. by buying property or a business. That's proving a bit controversial here, because any property worth about €350k+ in the Lisbon area gets put on the market for €500k and bought by a foreigner (usually Chinese people) so they and their family can get EU residence. Not great for locals trying to get on the property ladder! In those cases the visa holder has to reside in Portugal for 6 months of the year.
Presumably it has to be €500k cash? I can't take out a €400k mortgage and buy a €500k house?

I wanna be EUian again. I liked it when I was. Ever since Brexit it seems like I've just be trapped indoors, never going away on holiday, never even going out to restaurants or pubs.
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

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