Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

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Martin Y
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Martin Y » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:09 pm

I don't find any ambiguity with XLR connectors or the like. Male plug has exposed pins, female socket has shrouded receptacles. Doesn't matter if they're cable mount or panel mount types. So long as you don't fall into the confusion of thinking if it's on a cable it's a plug there's no problem at all.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:23 pm

individualmember wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:45 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:03 am
individualmember wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:51 am
Back when I was learning the terminology one of the alternatives was insert the jack into the jack plug/socket. Because PO type audio connectors (similar to but not the same as 1/4” TRS connectors) were always called Jacks in the area of telly I was in.

And the plugs usually had double innering (ooer missus).
Jack and socket do seem unambiguous. Plug already gets used as a verb, and there's a bit of ambiguity as Martin says, along with its other slang uses - so "plug the jack into the socket" seems good enough.
Grumble wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:28 am
Male-female as a technical term is only weird if you have hang-ups about sex. Whatever you call them will become a possible euphemism in any case, just as penis and vagina originally were.
I guess it could become a euphemism at some point, though electric plugs and sockets have been around for decades already without becoming commonly sexualised. But I think that's a different question to adopting terminology that was initially used solely to refer to sex.
What about connectors which are the other way around at each end of the cable, plug and socket isn’t enough for XLR connectors
I'm not quite sure what you mean. That wikipedia page refers to a male end and a female end - calling it the plug (or jack) end and socket end seems to make as much sense. Or the triple-penis end vs the triple-vagina end.
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Martin Y » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:38 pm

The cool kids all have quadruple penis and quadruple vagina ends nowadays, grandad.

(Or lightning ends if they're Apple cool kids. Or Bluetooth and no ends at all, I s'pose.)

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:38 pm

The Spanish term for male as in a male connector is "macho", which is pleasing to this English-speaking ear. A "macho cabrío" is a billy goat, and not a convertible car driven by a man who is compensating for only having a 3.5mm jack plug.
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by individualmember » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:15 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:23 pm

I'm not quite sure what you mean. That wikipedia page refers to a male end and a female end - calling it the plug (or jack) end and socket end seems to make as much sense. Or the triple-penis end vs the triple-vagina end.
What I’m getting at is that when I specify an XLR plug or a socket I have to specify a Male or female plug on the cable to fit a Male or female socket on a device (microphone, speaker, recorder, interface, whatever). So if I want to get away from using the terms Male and female* then plug and socket doesn’t help because there’s two types of each.

I realise that I’m using plug to mean the connector on the cable and socket to mean the connector on the surface of a thing. Maybe that’s a problem.


[BTW I have no idea why this is insisting on capitalising the first letter of male but not female]

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by individualmember » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:29 am

Martin Y wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:09 pm
I don't find any ambiguity with XLR connectors or the like. Male plug has exposed pins, female socket has shrouded receptacles. Doesn't matter if they're cable mount or panel mount types. So long as you don't fall into the confusion of thinking if it's on a cable it's a plug there's no problem at all.
Yes, that’s a trap I fell into. Ok, so what do we call the bit on a cable and the bit on a panel to distinguish between them? A panel mount plug versus a cable mount socket? TBH I’ve never really discussed them other to demand a replacement thing to replace a broken one and asking for a female plug or a male socket hasn’t been misinterpreted yet.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Martin Y » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:22 am

That's it, you just describe an XLR connector by its number of pins, male or female, cable or panel mount.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am

Surely it's just "Thingamejig" and "whatsit"
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by bmforre » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 am

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am
Surely it's just "Thingamejig" and "whatsit"
But how do you translate "Thingamejig" and "whatsit" into German not to mention Chinese?

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:38 am

bmforre wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 am
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am
Surely it's just "Thingamejig" and "whatsit"
But how do you translate "Thingamejig" and "whatsit" into German not to mention Chinese?
Google translate? :lol:
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by bmforre » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:46 am

Gentleman Jim wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am
bmforre wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 am
How do you translate "Thingamejig" and "whatsit" into German not to mention Chinese?
Google translate? :lol:
When you did, what did you receive in return?
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by MartinDurkin » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:48 am

bmforre wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 am
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am
Surely it's just "Thingamejig" and "whatsit"
But how do you translate "Thingamejig" and "whatsit" into German not to mention Chinese?
When I worked in Switzerland we used Dingsbums for whatsit or thingamejig.
These were telecoms technical terms.
Can't think of another german synonym off the top of my head.

ETA: There is of course Scheisskerl but that only applies if the whatsit is causing problems.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Martin Y » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:52 am

I never learned German but years ago before you just Googled stuff the only spare parts, I mean ersatzteile, info we had for many of our microphone stands was a fax of a photocopy of the German version. So the various knobs and clamps are forever rändelschraube and klemmstück.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Gentleman Jim » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:53 am

bmforre wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:46 am
Gentleman Jim wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am
bmforre wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 am
How do you translate "Thingamejig" and "whatsit" into German not to mention Chinese?
Google translate? :lol:
When you did, what did you receive in return?
Pictures needed!!
那是什么
Nà shì shénme
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by bmforre » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:06 am

Here is a page from the excellent LEO dictionaries, this showing Dingsbums on a German <> English two way page:

Dingsbums

Note lnks to a number of forum discussions.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Boustrophedon » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:23 pm

When machining things which have to fit into other things, like pistons into cylinders on a model steam engines, the rule is always to machine Eve first. :D

Just off to polish my slave clocks now.
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Martin Y » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:42 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:23 pm
When machining things which have to fit into other things, like pistons into cylinders on a model steam engines, the rule is always to machine Eve first. :D

Just off to polish my slave clocks now.
Instead of making her second from offcuts like God did? I guess it was His first time and he probably never heard the phrase before either.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by plebian » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:44 pm

Grumble wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:28 am
Male-female as a technical term is only weird if you have hang-ups about sex. Whatever you call them will become a possible euphemism in any case, just as penis and vagina originally were.
It's not a euphemism, they aren't actually body parts you know. It's just a description of a thing.

I'm not sure why "people have hang ups about sex" is something to deride or use as a reasonable dismissal. You need to meet people where they are instead of judging people for having feelings and mores different to you.

Hang ups about sex are a common result of sexual assault. So just have a think about what it is that you are saying.
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Grumble » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:54 pm

plebian wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:44 pm
Grumble wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:28 am
Male-female as a technical term is only weird if you have hang-ups about sex. Whatever you call them will become a possible euphemism in any case, just as penis and vagina originally were.
It's not a euphemism, they aren't actually body parts you know. It's just a description of a thing.

I'm not sure why "people have hang ups about sex" is something to deride or use as a reasonable dismissal. You need to meet people where they are instead of judging people for having feelings and mores different to you.

Hang ups about sex are a common result of sexual assault. So just have a think about what it is that you are saying.
I have plenty of hang ups, I think most people do, as a first approximation I’d say everyone does. Some more than others and for a variety of reasons. I was intending for a wry tone rather than a dismissive one, but I think I missed, sorry.
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by dyqik » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:57 pm

Now you need to sex BNC, or better still, Triax connectors...

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Millennie Al » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:30 am

JQH wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:19 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:26 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:00 pm
I've skipped over a few posts on this thread, but it's always worth remembering the general balance of whiteness on the forum. We're not necessarily the best people to judge the offensiveness or not of the terms here.
What has whiteness got to do with it?
See the history of slavery in the British Empire for a f.cking big clue.
Is this some sort of British exceptionalism? You'll have to be rather more explicit than that.
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by Millennie Al » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:32 am

dyqik wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:58 pm
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:31 am
GIven system A and system B whereby system B does only and exactly what is dictated by system A, this seems a perfectly good match to the terms "master" and "slave".
This just isn't true. You obviously don't know much about slavery.
Well, in that case, what terms would you use for a persistent relationship between two people, A and B, whereby B must do exactly what A demands with no way to escape?
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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by dyqik » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:50 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:32 am
dyqik wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:58 pm
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:31 am
GIven system A and system B whereby system B does only and exactly what is dictated by system A, this seems a perfectly good match to the terms "master" and "slave".
This just isn't true. You obviously don't know much about slavery.
Well, in that case, what terms would you use for a persistent relationship between two people, A and B, whereby B must do exactly what A demands with no way to escape?
That's never happened, and so there's no term for it. Certainly it isn't Master-Slave, because slaves could have considerable responsibility (e.g. when used as household servants), or could be pure manual labour. In either case, it was possible for them to rebel, and be punished, or to escape. Slavery works by threats and terror, which is not relevant to technology.

And so it doesn't reflect the relationship between a system A and system B where system B has no free will.

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by dyqik » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:13 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:50 pm
Millennie Al wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:32 am
dyqik wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:58 pm


This just isn't true. You obviously don't know much about slavery.
Well, in that case, what terms would you use for a persistent relationship between two people, A and B, whereby B must do exactly what A demands with no way to escape?
That's never happened, and so there's no term for it. Certainly it isn't Master-Slave, because slaves could have considerable responsibility (e.g. when used as household servants), or could be pure manual labour. In either case, it was possible for them to rebel, and be punished, or to escape. Slavery works by threats and terror, which is not relevant to technology.

And so it doesn't reflect the relationship between a system A and system B where system B has no free will.
The other question you should ask yourself is why are you so insistent on anthropomorphising both nodes in this relationship? Why use terms for people, instead of domesticated animals, or insects, or mechanical components?

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Re: Is "master - slave" admissible as technical terms?

Post by dyqik » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:45 pm

If you are going to insist on anthropomorphising, then there dozens of centralized hierarchical power structures to choose as examples that work at least as well. e.g.:

Director-foreman-worker
Director-actor
General-sergeant-private
Centurion-legion
King-baron-serf
Emperor-subject
Pope-bishop-priest

But you are trying to force a deterministic relationship into a non-deterministic analogy. More accurately deterministic structures have to move away from people as the nodes, e.g.

brain-limb

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