Page 6 of 24
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:30 pm
by shpalman
I seem to remember that at end of the labour government, which had Gordon Brown in charge of it rather than Blair, the news was the MP's big-house-mortgages-on-expenses scandal.
If anyone is remembering Tony Blair losing an election because of the Iraq War they are suffering from a Mandela effect.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:33 pm
by Gfamily
IME, Iraq is mentioned by Labour leftists and LibDems, but not by people who
a) are pro Brexit rightists
b) anti Brexit Labour supporters
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:45 pm
by plodder
I note that, almost a week after the election result, we still haven’t seen an apology from Tony Blair.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:52 pm
by GeenDienst
Suggest a small amendment:
Gfamily wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:33 pm
IME, Iraq is mentioned by Labour leftists and LibDems, but not by
people who
a) are pro Brexit rightists
b) anti Brexit Labour supporters any f.cker else
Of minor passing interest, there's a really odd piece by the Groans
here, maintaining that the LDs supported the Iraq war by voting against it. Something about not being out and out pacifists, and hoping the troops all didn't get killed once it started.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:01 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Iron Magpie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:28 pm
Just heard that out of 54 former English Labour seats lost 51 voted leave in 2016. Still think I'm wrong...?
Yep.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:57 pm
by GeenDienst
plodder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:45 pm
I note that, almost a week after the election result, we still haven’t seen an apology from Tony Blair.
Or Lord Buckethead. Or that bloke I saw in Sainsbury's.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:43 pm
by Martin Y
Gfamily wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:33 pm
IME, Iraq is mentioned by Labour leftists and LibDems, but not by people who
a) are pro Brexit rightists
b) anti Brexit Labour supporters
That's my impression. Also Iraq is the go-to stick to beat Blair, not Labour generally.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:19 pm
by GeenDienst
Labour supporters who aren't anti-Brexit are generally lexiters, and this is confounded with leftiness.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm
by Herainestold
Need a stealth candidate. Any Labour leader with the leftish, progressive, anti-Imperialist crdentials of Corbyn will draw the attention of the Establishment, the Americans, the Russians, the media, the banksters, Koch Bros, et al. That hypothetical person, like Corbyn will have no chance.
Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
Don't know who that is, or how that is accomplished but it is whats needed.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:29 pm
by GeenDienst
Right, another liar, then.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:03 pm
by monkey
Herainestold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm
Need a stealth candidate. Any Labour leader with the leftish, progressive, anti-Imperialist crdentials of Corbyn will draw the attention of the Establishment, the Americans, the Russians, the media, the banksters, Koch Bros, et al. That hypothetical person, like Corbyn will have no chance.
Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
Don't know who that is, or how that is accomplished but it is whats needed.
If you knew who they were, they'd be failing at stealth.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 pm
by bolo
Herainestold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm
Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
So somebody who gets elected by promising A then actually does B? This would be a good thing?
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:21 pm
by dyqik
bolo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 pm
Herainestold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm
Need to find somebody whoo looks moderate but has deep progressive and leftish instincts and who will pivot that way once elected.
So somebody who gets elected by promising A then actually does B? This would be a good thing?
A better option would be someone who is moderate, and can work with existing institutions, but backed by a party policy book that is progressive and leftist. That way there's not so much of the worry that they will blow up the system or destroy what people have already won, but the left still trusts the aims of the party they lead.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:57 pm
by FredM
Clive Lewis announced today that he’s definitely standing. I doubt that he believes he can win tho’.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:55 pm
by GeenDienst
Seems he believes the problem is that Labour aren't Momentumy enough.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:47 pm
by Iron Magpie
GeenDienst wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:29 pm
Right, another liar, then.
Yes absolutely. Why not? The tories have been doing this successfully for years. It's about time Labour started doing the same. As Corbyn pointed out after the queens speech the tories have already backed out of three of their election lies...ahem...commitments. All inside a week.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:23 pm
by GeenDienst
So Labour squeaks in with a small majority, with, maybe 26% of the electorate having voted for them,* on a promise of something no more than moderately leftie.
And then, "Aha! April, May, June, July and August fool! What you're really getting is a full-on, radical socialist transformation of society!"
I'd give them about three weeks.
And this of course is entirely separate to the stuff about Labour apparently being better than that.
*Based roughly on Cameron's 2015 win.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pm
by sheldrake
I find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:27 pm
by PeteB
I agree - it would be difficult to turn round that majority in 1 term. I think it depends a bit how affected the economy is and how much people notice, especially is we leave end of December next year, with whatever can be negotiated in that time.
EU / US Level playing field conditions will be interesting
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:56 pm
by Iron Magpie
sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pm
I find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
Wow. This has to be the most bonkers thing I've read in this new place.
The difference between them is nothing like what you wrote. The differences are many but on truth telling the difference is that Bozo has been sacked from two jobs for telling dirty great porkies and Corbyn hasn't...ever.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:58 pm
by Iron Magpie
Glad you also brought up those conspiracy theories about Russia
Any idea when we are going to get a look at the report that the government have been hiding since before the election? No...thought not.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:58 pm
by murmur
Iron Magpie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:56 pm
sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pm
I find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
Wow. This has to be the most bonkers thing I've read in this new place.
The difference between them is nothing like what you wrote. The differences are many but on truth telling the difference is that Bozo has been sacked from two jobs for telling dirty great porkies and Corbyn hasn't...ever.
Welcome to Sheldrake World, official language Newspeak.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:03 pm
by sheldrake
Iron Magpie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:56 pm
sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:11 pm
I find it comical that people believe Corbyn told the truth more than Boris Johnson. I know he had a puritanical 'too honest for his own good' myth going within the labour party, but to outsiders he was obviously a deeply self-deluded and mendacious person who just scowled and walked off whenever he was caught out talking nonsense.
The only difference between them is that Johnson is more positive and entertaining, and has a much better grasp of what people outside of his own political tradition think about life.
The current choices seem to consist of momentum stooges or continuity remainers who think the election result was just down to Corbyn's personality and some conspiracy theory about Russia.
Yup, Labour is looking at a long winter away from power.
Wow. This has to be the most bonkers thing I've read in this new place.
The difference between them is nothing like what you wrote. The differences are many but on truth telling the difference is that Bozo has been sacked from two jobs for telling dirty great porkies and Corbyn hasn't...ever.
That's because Corbyn haa never had a real job outside of politics. Corbyn has lied repeatedly.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:06 pm
by Iron Magpie
^^^^surely has to be worth a double facepalm. Try reading something other than the Daily Mail and you will find that isn't true. Now I understand why you think Boris and JC have things in common re truth telling. You wouldn't recognise the truth if it stood up in your soup.
Re: After Corbyn
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:10 pm
by sheldrake
Would you lie to explain why Corbyn stopped telling the truth about his views on Brexit ?
His repeated lies on TV about antisemitism in the Labour party, outed by members of his own party ?