Scrutable

lpm wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 11:28 am

Trinucleus wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 9:55 am

headshot wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 7:14 am

My usually very sensible brother has just texted me to tell me that his wife and kids are heading to a seafront to meet up with nan today.

When I told him that the rules only permitted two individuals from separate households to meet, he said “tell that to Cummings”.

This whole debacle will now just give everyone the excuse to break the rules with impunity.

Huge second wave by, what? July? August?

That attitude about going out is a complete misrepresentation of what Cummings did...... but surely he if anyone must know it's about the image not the facts?

How do you mean? Cummings travelled across the country while knowingly infectious. Absolutely criminal.

Nothing like going out to see your Nan while 99% sure none of you can be infectious, which is reckless and against the rules, but is far less likely to kill anyone.

I meant that even if he feels there is justification within the guidance, which is no. 10s defence, he should know that how it's seen will be more important

How does the number of people per household actually matter? Surely they're either all infected or none of them are, so for covid purposes can be considered a single individual.

And a windy, salty seafront is probably the safest to meet someone.

Loads of folks are going back to work, spending all day in offices with strangers. It seems hard to justify that if spending an hour in a sterile environment with a beloved family member is unconscionably dangerous.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 12:54 pm

How does the number of people per household actually matter? Surely they're either all infected or none of them are, so for covid purposes can be considered a single individual.

And a windy, salty seafront is probably the safest to meet someone.

Loads of folks are going back to work, spending all day in offices with strangers. It seems hard to justify that if spending an hour in a sterile environment with a beloved family member is unconscionably dangerous.

That’s the conclusion I came to, so didn’t argue further.

Two separate household units who have all be isolating for 8 weeks. Any chance of cross-infection is tiny.

But I know they’ll be sensible about it. There are vast swathes of the population who will now just assume they can go back to normal.

Throughout all of this, my neighbours have had visitors over and have mixed closely in their garden. Now they’ll just drop any pretence of distancing.

EACLucifer wrote: ↑

Sat May 23, 2020 11:30 pm

So the Guardian are now reporting Covid Cummings was spotted sightseeing, while the Mirror have now revealed he did a second trip up north, after the first one.

This is after the Tory leadership all closed ranks to defend him, having rushed to condemn Ferguson when Ferguson was radically less risky.

And it remains the case that the li(n)e they are using is that Covid Cummings was too ill to care for his kids. Were this the case, he was also too ill to drive.

Grant Shapps on Sophy Ridge on Sunday was entertaining.

Sophy Ridge: When did Boris Johnson know aboot the trip to Durham?

Grant Shapps: As you know Boris Johnson was very ill at the time.

Sophy Ridge: Cummings travelled to Durham on the 28th or 29th of March. At the time we were being told that Johnson was still leading the Government from Number 10. Were we being mislead?

Grant Shapps: Wibble wibble wibble wibble

headshot wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 1:48 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 12:54 pm

headshot wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 7:14 am

My usually very sensible brother has just texted me to tell me that his wife and kids are heading to a seafront to meet up with nan today.

When I told him that the rules only permitted two individuals from separate households to meet, he said “tell that to Cummings”.

This whole debacle will now just give everyone the excuse to break the rules with impunity.

Huge second wave by, what? July? August?

How does the number of people per household actually matter? Surely they're either all infected or none of them are, so for covid purposes can be considered a single individual.

And a windy, salty seafront is probably the safest to meet someone.

Loads of folks are going back to work, spending all day in offices with strangers. It seems hard to justify that if spending an hour in a sterile environment with a beloved family member is unconscionably dangerous.

That’s the conclusion I came to, so didn’t argue further.

Two separate household units who have all be isolating for 8 weeks. Any chance of cross-infection is tiny.

But I know they’ll be sensible about it. There are vast swathes of the population who will now just assume they can go back to normal.

Throughout all of this, my neighbours have had visitors over and have mixed closely in their garden. Now they’ll just drop any pretence of distancing.

What I find strange about your brother's attitude, as reported, is that it suggests that the main/only reason they would not have gone for that meetup is because of government advice or directives. The revelations about Cummings don't tell us anything new about the actual risks, so someone who is now prepared to go to meet nan who otherwise wouldn't have done presumably wasn't actually worried about the health issues. To me that seems at least as concerning as the "Sod 'em if they can't stick to the same rules as us" message, although I'm not entirely surprised.

The thing is, though, we can all think of reasons why our meetup is low-risk (outdoors, windy pier, nobody's been out for ages anyway, etc), but that's exactly how everyone else is reasoning. They just have different numbers plugged into their personal risk equations. So yes, I think this kind of attitude will lead to second (and third, and ...) waves, but I'm not sure that any of us is especially good at working out what is safe and what isn't.

FWIW, Mrs sTeamTraen and I have been respecting our local (Spanish, strict) lockdown pretty much to the letter, partly because it's the law, but mostly (I think) because we want to maximise, rather than merely locally optimise, our chances of getting sick.

Trinucleus wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 9:55 am

headshot wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 7:14 am

My usually very sensible brother has just texted me to tell me that his wife and kids are heading to a seafront to meet up with nan today.

When I told him that the rules only permitted two individuals from separate households to meet, he said “tell that to Cummings”.

This whole debacle will now just give everyone the excuse to break the rules with impunity.

Huge second wave by, what? July? August?

That attitude about going out is a complete misrepresentation of what Cummings did...... but surely he if anyone must know it's about the image not the facts?

It's about image "sun readers don't do detail, it looks bad" until they get skewered, then the nuances are the main thing.

Stay at home, unless you determine that you have the disease and need to access alterative childcare, should both you and your spouse fall too ill to be able to care for your child.

Then stay within 300miles of home, but don't go out.*

Unless it's a nice day, then stay within 30 miles of your second home.

* Do not make multiple trips between these locations unless you determine it safe to do so.

Yes...I've been following the guidelines to the letter. And yes, if one (usually sensible) thinks that way, many others will too. My consideration was more about whether it was worth me arguing the toss over whether they should go or not...

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 1:56 pm

headshot wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 1:48 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 12:54 pm

How does the number of people per household actually matter? Surely they're either all infected or none of them are, so for covid purposes can be considered a single individual.

And a windy, salty seafront is probably the safest to meet someone.

Loads of folks are going back to work, spending all day in offices with strangers. It seems hard to justify that if spending an hour in a sterile environment with a beloved family member is unconscionably dangerous.

That’s the conclusion I came to, so didn’t argue further.

Two separate household units who have all be isolating for 8 weeks. Any chance of cross-infection is tiny.

But I know they’ll be sensible about it. There are vast swathes of the population who will now just assume they can go back to normal.

Throughout all of this, my neighbours have had visitors over and have mixed closely in their garden. Now they’ll just drop any pretence of distancing.

What I find strange about your brother's attitude, as reported, is that it suggests that the main/only reason they would not have gone for that meetup is because of government advice or directives. The revelations about Cummings don't tell us anything new about the actual risks, so someone who is now prepared to go to meet nan who otherwise wouldn't have done presumably wasn't actually worried about the health issues. To me that seems at least as concerning as the "Sod 'em if they can't stick to the same rules as us" message, although I'm not entirely surprised.

The thing is, though, we can all think of reasons why our meetup is low-risk (outdoors, windy pier, nobody's been out for ages anyway, etc), but that's exactly how everyone else is reasoning. They just have different numbers plugged into their personal risk equations. So yes, I think this kind of attitude will lead to second (and third, and ...) waves, but I'm not sure that any of us is especially good at working out what is safe and what isn't.

FWIW, Mrs sTeamTraen and I have been respecting our local (Spanish, strict) lockdown pretty much to the letter, partly because it's the law, but mostly (I think) because we want to maximise, rather than merely locally optimise, our chances of getting sick.

Minimise, I guess

Tweet from Toby Helm.

Toby Helm
@tobyhelm
Boris Johnson's problem is that if keeps Cummings he could destroy trust in his government in a national emergency. But if he sacks him he and half his Cabinet who were forced to back him yesterday and caved in feebly will look pathetic. Tough one.

I’m not saying Toby is incorrect in his reading of the runes but it is depressing that it is even a consideration.

On the one hand Cummings moronic behaviour threatens to completely shred the government’s authority in managing a deadly pandemic threatening the lives of hundreds of thousands.

But OTOH sacking him would be mildly embarrassing to the useless shower of rancid shite that pass for our current Cabinet, I mean god forbid some people might gain the impression that Gove might be an odious little sh.t.

It is such a difficult call ...

I think if the people who made the rules are happy to flout them egregiously when they judge it sufficiently safe, it's very hard to make the case that everyone else should follow them to the letter - especially when the rules rest upon a priori absurd notions, e.g. work colleagues being safer than family members. I think most people would rather hug a relative than have a staff meeting.

The UK's lockdown is totally wrong-headed in both conception and detail. A lot of technically rule-breaking stuff is much much safer than things people are being encouraged to do.

jimbob wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 2:36 pm

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 1:56 pm

FWIW, Mrs sTeamTraen and I have been respecting our local (Spanish, strict) lockdown pretty much to the letter, partly because it's the law, but mostly (I think) because we want to maximise, rather than merely locally optimise, our chances of getting sick.

Minimise, I guess

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 3:38 pm

jimbob wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 2:36 pm

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 1:56 pm

FWIW, Mrs sTeamTraen and I have been respecting our local (Spanish, strict) lockdown pretty much to the letter, partly because it's the law, but mostly (I think) because we want to maximise, rather than merely locally optimise, our chances of getting sick.

Minimise, I guess

I was just checking that you hadn't been possessed by the spirit of Dominic Cummings.

Found on facebook, can anyone be bothered to try to disprove it?

jimbob wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 3:43 pm

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 3:38 pm

jimbob wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 2:36 pm

Minimise, I guess

I was just checking that you hadn't been possessed by the spirit of Dominic Cummings.

I didn’t know he was dead!

shpalman wrote: ↑

Sun May 24, 2020 4:17 pm

Found on facebook, can anyone be bothered to try to disprove it?

photo_2020-05-24_18-15-00.jpg

TBH I think they're just drip feeding us little scandals so that when any big stuff comes out it will seem like nothing. I mean we've already got complicity in assaults on journalists, possible domestic abuse, corruption...

Johnson is asked whether his support for Cummings means that other people are completely at liberty to do as his chief aide did.

“I think what they did was totally understandable,” Johnson replied. “I think any father, any parent would understand what he did

And with that the final vestiges of the government's moral authority in dealing with the pandemic slipped beneath the surface leaving nothing but splinters of wood and oliy rope.

Not sure how they can expect anybody to continue following their instructions now.

That can't be real? To what are they referring?

Read out on BBC News (twice) and now deleted, so I guess someone has just been fired.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/12 ... 6344609795

Thanks Disco,

I've just saved that screenshot, along with the link to the idiot king's tweet, to show it wasn't a spoof:

https://twitter.com/AnIdiotKing/status/ ... 4415042563

That screenshot is called P45.jpg on my PC.

I think - but can't be certain - that they're referring to the government.

And being read out slowly on BBC news:

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/12 ... 09795?s=20

So, is "was just following my instincts" now an acceptable defence in a court of law ?? Just askin'.

Now it’s serious for them. They’ve lost the Mail.

Man, I thought the government response was delayed but the Hairy Bikers are really taking the piss there.