Scrutable

lpm wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:46 pm

Stupidosaurus wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Our local plod (GMP Leigh, Atherton & Worsley) have put this out on FB (see below), so looks like they have got a 1h limit in mind. Gove has said something similar (hour walk, half hour run) but he might have been making it up on the spot.


Pennington Flash is closed to visitors, yet on attending today there were people who had driven from Worsley to walk here so not exercising locally, a couple on a six mile walk, so out longer than 1 hour (trust me they weren't Olympic speed walkers), and a couple from Higher Ince and Platt Bridge who drove there, moved the cones blocking the entrance, and were going to park up and go for a run!! This is serious, People are dying, and our superb NHS colleagues are at breaking point. PLEASE OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE LOCKDOWN! Simples! Set the example, don't be the example!

There is no 1 hour limit. Random members of police running Facebook accounts are inventing their own time limits.

An hour is the time stated by the minister.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52082781

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:53 pm

There's a big woodland reserve on the outskirts of my town. The municipal government has closed it, to stop people from different parts of town traveling there and infecting each other.

The point of the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus, including geographically. People have to travel a certain distance to access immediate essentials like food and medical services. They shouldn't be going further than that, or in the opposite direction, unless it's impossible to exercise safely closer than that.

Ye, the problem is that at a population level millions of people being careful still add up to lots of occasions when the disease is spread.

We now have the army on the streets of Marbella. Not that we've been there since lockdown, nor would we attempt the journey. There's nothing for us there.
I just hope our little bubble here remains Covid-19 - free.
f.ck the libertarian arguments. The police state here is very friendly, not punitive. And everyone is accepting it's for the common good.

Apparently 150 miles is local for Stephen Kinnock

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ather-neil

Also

"Elsewhere, a motorist was stopped by a motorway patrol on a 224-mile round trip to buy an item from eBay – with his wife in the boot, police said. The driver travelled from Coventry to collect the eBay purchase of windows in Salford, Greater Manchester, despite the public being warned only to make essential journeys due to the coronavirus pandemic.

After they picked up his purchase in Salford, the driver’s wife could not fit in the vehicle for the two-hour return journey south. She was travelling in the boot of the car when they were pulled over by a motorway patrol on the M6 in Cheshire, according to a tweet by the North West Motorway Police Twitter feed. Officers wrote out a traffic offence report for the driver."

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 am

lpm wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:46 pm

Stupidosaurus wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Our local plod (GMP Leigh, Atherton & Worsley) have put this out on FB (see below), so looks like they have got a 1h limit in mind. Gove has said something similar (hour walk, half hour run) but he might have been making it up on the spot.


Pennington Flash is closed to visitors, yet on attending today there were people who had driven from Worsley to walk here so not exercising locally, a couple on a six mile walk, so out longer than 1 hour (trust me they weren't Olympic speed walkers), and a couple from Higher Ince and Platt Bridge who drove there, moved the cones blocking the entrance, and were going to park up and go for a run!! This is serious, People are dying, and our superb NHS colleagues are at breaking point. PLEASE OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE LOCKDOWN! Simples! Set the example, don't be the example!

There is no 1 hour limit. Random members of police running Facebook accounts are inventing their own time limits.

An hour is the time stated by the minister.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52082781

Think about what this implying. The police enforcing something casually said by a government official? No thanks.

Anybody tried getting into Manchester?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... e-18005740

Easter eggs?
Let me have a look.
Nope! Not on the list.
Now f.ck off!

The problem the police have to try and manage is stopping everyone going "I know, I'll drive the to (national park of your choice) as it'll be quieter there" but everyone has the same idea at the same time as happened last weekend.

I love how everyone clamoured for a lock down and are now complaining.

How many pub lock-ins were going on while the police were using the drone in the Peak District?

OneOffDave wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:32 am

I love how everyone clamoured for a lock down and are now complaining.

Yeah that was pretty predictable. One of the reasons I'm unfriending so many people on Facebook at the moment.

OneOffDave wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:32 am

The problem the police have to try and manage is stopping everyone going "I know, I'll drive the to (national park of your choice) as it'll be quieter there" but everyone has the same idea at the same time as happened last weekend.

I love how everyone clamoured for a lock down and are now complaining.

How many pub lock-ins were going on while the police were using the drone in the Peak District?

Yes, it's frustrating that the govt couldn't even get the lock down right, issuing a stream of vague and contradictory advice. Suggesting the police should enforce random rules has just led to the police f.cking up.

By missing the big problems and chasing easy targets instead, the police are making it harder for themselves in any future role in a tougher lock down.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:15 am

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 am

lpm wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:46 pm

There is no 1 hour limit. Random members of police running Facebook accounts are inventing their own time limits.

An hour is the time stated by the minister.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52082781

Think about what this implying. The police enforcing something casually said by a government official? No thanks.

First, the 1 hour limit may have been stated elsewhere, I just didn't spend longer looking.

Second, it depends what you mean by enforced. The police have always have a much wider role than enforcing laws. Then can have polite but firm conversations in which they tell someone that they are being irresponsible or anti-social even if that person hasn't broken any laws. Back when I was young and irresponsible I was on the receiving end on occasion.

... which is why "firm conversations" with people who are being responsible and keeping well away from others is such an own goal.

I think there certainly are legitimate reasons to fear police overreach, but I suspect that (as is generally the case) those on the receiving end will tend to be already-marginalised and vulnerable people in city centres, not middle-aged couples going for a jolly stroll in the countryside during a pandemic.

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:16 pm

Second, it depends what you mean by enforced. The police have always have a much wider role than enforcing laws. Then can have polite but firm conversations in which they tell someone that they are being irresponsible or anti-social even if that person hasn't broken any laws. Back when I was young and irresponsible I was on the receiving end on occasion.

As somebody who is generally law-abiding, fairly outgoing and largely nocturnal, this is the majority of what I see police doing, along with responding to traffic incidents.

I did once get stopped and IDed by the police in London while walking to a friend's house. I think I got profiled from a distance, then when they drove up and started talking to me were a bit confused by my skin tone-beard-accent combination (which also often happens at airports) and didn't cause too much hassle. These powers will absolutely be used to increase harassment of minority groups by the Met and others.

OneOffDave wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:32 am

The problem the police have to try and manage is stopping everyone going "I know, I'll drive the to (national park of your choice) as it'll be quieter there" but everyone has the same idea at the same time as happened last weekend.

I love how everyone clamoured for a lock down and are now complaining.

How many pub lock-ins were going on while the police were using the drone in the Peak District?

I’m all for police preventing access to “honey traps”, just against the idea that getting in your car to go and exercise somewhere quieter than your local street is a bad thing.

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 am

lpm wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:46 pm

Stupidosaurus wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:29 pm

Our local plod (GMP Leigh, Atherton & Worsley) have put this out on FB (see below), so looks like they have got a 1h limit in mind. Gove has said something similar (hour walk, half hour run) but he might have been making it up on the spot.


Pennington Flash is closed to visitors, yet on attending today there were people who had driven from Worsley to walk here so not exercising locally, a couple on a six mile walk, so out longer than 1 hour (trust me they weren't Olympic speed walkers), and a couple from Higher Ince and Platt Bridge who drove there, moved the cones blocking the entrance, and were going to park up and go for a run!! This is serious, People are dying, and our superb NHS colleagues are at breaking point. PLEASE OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE LOCKDOWN! Simples! Set the example, don't be the example!

There is no 1 hour limit. Random members of police running Facebook accounts are inventing their own time limits.

An hour is the time stated by the minister.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52082781

An hour is suggested, not stated. And for anyone trying to do their 10k steps, an hour isn't enough unless you're walking really fast.

Asked to clarify how much time people could spend exercising outside their homes, Mr Gove said: "It depends on each individual's fitness." The government has not so far issued a time limit for exercise, but has urged people to stay local.

"I would have thought that for most, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes, or a cycle ride between that, depending on their level of fitness, is appropriate," Mr Gove said.

Fishnut wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:15 pm

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 am

lpm wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:46 pm

There is no 1 hour limit. Random members of police running Facebook accounts are inventing their own time limits.

An hour is the time stated by the minister.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52082781

An hour is suggested, not stated. And for anyone trying to do their 10k steps, an hour isn't enough unless you're walking really fast.

Asked to clarify how much time people could spend exercising outside their homes, Mr Gove said: "It depends on each individual's fitness." The government has not so far issued a time limit for exercise, but has urged people to stay local.

"I would have thought that for most, a walk of up to an hour, or a run of 30 minutes, or a cycle ride between that, depending on their level of fitness, is appropriate," Mr Gove said.

Yes, I was just disagreeing with lpm’s suggestion that the hour came from random people inventing times on Facebook groups.

Anyway, the whole discussion will probably be obsolete pretty soon. Family in Spain tell me that they’re not allowed to go outside for exercise or to walk the dog (just essential shopping or medical appointments). Unless things take a turn for the better that’s probably how it’ll be in Britain in a week or so.

The police in Stupidosaurus's lands posted their invented rules on Sat 28th. Your Gove quote was from Sun 29th. The police have also invented rules about visiting elderly parents, going shopping in the wrong places and not being allowed to buy easter eggs.

If the govt issues new guidelines then good - they, unlike the police, are entitled to.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:49 pm

I think there certainly are legitimate reasons to fear police overreach, but I suspect that (as is generally the case) those on the receiving end will tend to be already-marginalised and vulnerable people in city centres, not middle-aged couples going for a jolly stroll in the countryside during a pandemic.

About a third of my colleagues have been stopped over the last week in central London. They've just been asked politely where they are going and what for. As soon as they say who they work for it's all fine. It's all had an "is your journey really necessary" vibe to it when stopped. Very friendly engagement

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:17 pm

The police in Stupidosaurus's lands posted their invented rules on Sat 28th. Your Gove quote was from Sun 29th. The police have also invented rules about visiting elderly parents, going shopping in the wrong places and not being allowed to buy easter eggs.

If the govt issues new guidelines then good - they, unlike the police, are entitled to.

Where in:
To help stop the spread of coronavirus, you should only leave the house for 1 of 4 reasons:

• shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible
  one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle – alone or with members of your household
  any medical need, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person
  travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home

I don't see visiting elderly relatives on that list (unless they are actively providing care)

The guidance specifically states:
Do not meet others, even friends or family

OneOffDave wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:35 pm

The guidance specifically states:
Do not meet others, even friends or family

Yes, indeed. And anyone over 70 is strongly advised not to meet friends and family (except for carers).

It's under "provide care or to help a vulnerable person". This includes taking provisions and a birthday cake to your elderly father who is fully isolated and can't shop. The word "meet" is not defined, but chatting from the other end of the garden satisfies the guidance.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:31 pm

It's under "provide care or to help a vulnerable person". This includes taking provisions and a birthday cake to your elderly father who is fully isolated and can't shop. The word "meet" is not defined, but chatting from the other end of the garden satisfies the guidance.

Specifically, the things strongly advised against for over 70s are "Having friends and family to the house" and "social mixing in the community".

Good idea to deliver supplies. But leave them on the doorstep.

Where the f.ck the police get the idea that they can tell shopkeepers not to stock Easter eggs is beyond me! They’ve all been made already, they’re mostly in the shops already. They can be picked up along with other food shopping. Maybe a trip purely to buy Easter eggs isn’t a great idea, but for f.cks sake don’t tell me chocolate and sweets aren’t allowed.

Who knew that a former supreme court judge would agree with me?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... SApp_Other

If the Easter eggs thing is as presented in, for instance, this BBC story, then yes, what the actuall hell.

But I did wonder if perhaps what had happened was some police officer had a quiet word with someone who'd nipped out to the corner shops to buy the kids a treat like normal, and the resulting barney got overheard and interpreted as police telling shopkeepers what they can and can't sell.

Because people will take the piss when they don't like the rules. As I was reminded when I read these two stories today: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18344 ... okemon-go/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52088987

That last one... He put his wife in the boot. On the M6.