The Death Of Fossil Fuels

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IvanV
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Re: The Death Of Fossil Fuels

Post by IvanV » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:54 am

bolo wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:52 pm
And then there's ERCOT.
Texas. The USA's numerous state legislatures with considerable independence of action and diverse objectives (as we might euphemistically call them) result in many natural experiments in policy.

IvanV
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Re: The Death Of Fossil Fuels

Post by IvanV » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm

BEIS has just released a consultation on longer term storage at BEIS: Facilitating the deployment of large-scale and longduration electricity storage: call for evidence
By longer term, it means
BEIS, p9 wrote:able to store and discharge energy for over 4 hours, and up to days, weeks and months
Larger-scale means over 100MW. So at the very least 400MWh, 4 times larger than the largest battery in Europe (see a short distance above).

This quotation is interesting.
BEIS, p18 wrote:Market signals do not currently create a strong enough incentive to facilitate the storage of electricity for longer durations. Furthermore, where LLES is built, current market signals may incentivise it to cycle daily and provide shorter duration storage. It is important to note that the mechanisms outlined in this call for evidence will not address these signals for longer duration storage. We expect that these price signals will strengthen as renewable deployment increases and gas generation declines in the 2030s. Some stakeholders also see the need for broader market reforms in order to meet net zero; this is discussed in the Smart Systems and Flexibility Plan.
In translation, the price you can get for long term storage is insufficient to encourage anyone to build it. And if they had built it, they would operate it in the manner of short term storage, as close as they could. And BEIS intends to do nothing about that.

So, to the extent that they subsidise deployment of such technologies, and this acknowledges they will have to subsidise them to get any into operation in the near term, for example for the purpose of accelerating R&D, they don't intend to give any kind of certainty over whether there will be a market in the longer term.

One should also bear in mind that if any of these things does get adopted on large scale, then their cost adds to the cost that has to fall on customers and/or taxpayers. Reliable, low carbon electricity is a lot more expensive than interruptible low carbon electricity.

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shpalman
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Re: The Death Of Fossil Fuels

Post by shpalman » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:18 pm

molto tricky

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