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Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:03 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
This is interesting. A bit.
I couldn't find anything in the BBC Style Guide about how to refer to knights but in general, the style seems to be to use "Sir Firstname Surname" on the first instance and then "Sir Firstname" from then on.
So, for the BBC, he'll be referred to as "Sir Keir" in most instances, in a way that no other leader would've had - you'd never seen Jeremy Corbyn or Ed Miliband referred to as just Jeremy or Mr Ed. And "Mr Miliband" doesn't seem quite as reachable.
I wonder if that will make the slightest difference to him being known by the general population? Boris Johnson obviously gets firstnamed quite often.
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:15 pm
by Iron Magpie
He doesn't use the title "sir" himself so I suppose it would be too much to ask for the MSM to address him without it. Got to keep the disconnect going between him being a Knight and being representative of the party of the working classes.
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:23 pm
by Blackcountryboy
Some years after I had finished my PhD my supervisor had a Knighthood. The next time I had to visit head office in London I called into Imperial to congratulate him. As I approached his office I saw him coming in the opposite direction so I called< "Good Morning Sir Geoffrey, to which he replied, "I am still f.cking Geoff to my mates". If you meet Starmer I assume you can call him Sir Keir or f.cking Keir, both should be acceptable.
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:06 pm
by Bird on a Fire
El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:03 pm
This is interesting. A bit.
I couldn't find anything in the BBC Style Guide about how to refer to knights but in general, the style seems to be to use "Sir Firstname Surname" on the first instance and then "Sir Firstname" from then on.
So, for the BBC, he'll be referred to as "Sir Keir" in most instances, in a way that no other leader would've had - you'd never seen Jeremy Corbyn or Ed Miliband referred to as just Jeremy or Mr Ed. And "Mr Miliband" doesn't seem quite as reachable.
I wonder if that will make the slightest difference to him being known by the general population? Boris Johnson obviously gets firstnamed quite often.
I've noted before that women often get referred to as Mrs May or Mrs Thatcher, in a way you don't see for Mr Cameron or Mr Blair or Dr Brown. Heaven forfend somebody forget that those execrable specimens of humanity include VAGINAS about their persons.
I don't know the slightest f.cking thing about Sir f.cking of Starmer yet. What's he a Sir for?
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:15 pm
by Gfamily
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:06 pm
I don't know the slightest f.cking thing about Sir f.cking of Starmer yet. What's he a Sir for?
Most likely his work as Director of Public Prosecutions
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:46 pm
by FlammableFlower
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:06 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:03 pm
This is interesting. A bit.
I couldn't find anything in the BBC Style Guide about how to refer to knights but in general, the style seems to be to use "Sir Firstname Surname" on the first instance and then "Sir Firstname" from then on.
So, for the BBC, he'll be referred to as "Sir Keir" in most instances, in a way that no other leader would've had - you'd never seen Jeremy Corbyn or Ed Miliband referred to as just Jeremy or Mr Ed. And "Mr Miliband" doesn't seem quite as reachable.
I wonder if that will make the slightest difference to him being known by the general population? Boris Johnson obviously gets firstnamed quite often.
I've noted before that women often get referred to as Mrs May or Mrs Thatcher, in a way you don't see for Mr Cameron or Mr Blair or Dr Brown. Heaven forfend somebody forget that those execrable specimens of humanity include VAGINAS about their persons.
I don't know the slightest f.cking thing about Sir f.cking of Starmer yet. What's he a Sir for?
I'd frequently noticed that it was generally the same across the board, except for Gordon Brown - always remember him being referred to as Mr Brown. In a similar fashion your rarely see Angela Merkel being referred to as Dr Merkel, but generally as Mrs Merkel - is that to do with that their job, no longer being associated with academia, doesn't warrant (merit?) the use of the academic title?
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:29 pm
by AMS
FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:46 pm
I'd frequently noticed that it was generally the same across the board, except for Gordon Brown - always remember him being referred to as Mr Brown. In a similar fashion your rarely see Angela Merkel being referred to as Dr Merkel, but generally as Mrs Merkel - is that to do with that their job, no longer being associated with academia, doesn't warrant (merit?) the use of the academic title?
We'll know the answer to that when we see whether the media call our new shadow chancellor Dr. Dodds. She has a PhD from LSE (in "Government" according to Wikipedia, which sounds relevant to the job).
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:07 pm
by greyspoke
Gfamily wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:15 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:06 pm
I don't know the slightest f.cking thing about Sir f.cking of Starmer yet. What's he a Sir for?
Most likely his work as Director of Public Prosecutions
It is customary for ex-DPPs to be knighted or damed(?), just like senior civil servants. If you look at the
Wikipedia list, you will see only the current one isn't a K or D.
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:14 pm
by Iron Magpie
Gfamily wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:15 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:06 pm
I don't know the slightest f.cking thing about Sir f.cking of Starmer yet. What's he a Sir for?
Most likely his work as Director of Public Prosecutions
Pretty sure it was for his pro bono work defending human rights around the world, including anti-state murder work.
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:27 pm
by monkey
Iron Magpie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:14 pm
Gfamily wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:15 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:06 pm
I don't know the slightest f.cking thing about Sir f.cking of Starmer yet. What's he a Sir for?
Most likely his work as Director of Public Prosecutions
Pretty sure it was for his pro bono work defending human rights around the world, including anti-state murder work.
The list for 2014 says:
Keir Starmer QC
Keir Starmer recently finished his term of office as Director of Public Prosecutions and Head of the Crown Prosecution Service. He was Human Rights Lawyer of the Year in 2001 and QC of the Year in Human Rights and Public Law in 2007. His achievements include successful appeals leading to the abolition of the mandatory death penalty in certain Caribbean countries; persuading the House of Lords that evidence obtained by torture should be inadmissible in British courts; and achieving the CPS’s highest rate of conviction for domestic violence and for those charged with rape or serious sexual offences.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... awards.pdf
Re: Sir Keir Starmer
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:38 pm
by sTeamTraen
monkey wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:27 pm
The list for 2014 says:
His achievements include ... persuading the House of Lords that evidence obtained by torture should be inadmissible in British courts
This will *not* have endeared him to then-Home Secretary Theresa May, when it came time for Cameron to approve the knighthood.