Re: Covid-19 the unlockdown
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:07 pm
Famous a..eh.le Van Morrison reckons teh covids is all made up so expect to see him in hospital with it in 3... 2... 1...
I've seen various figures on social media, indicating that there have been about 60 cases traceable to the 70-year-old blue-glasses-wearer.shpalman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:11 amCorrupt convicted fraudster Flavio Briatore who thinks he already had covid has been hospitalized with covid having previously criticised authorities who closed his cash-cow club Billionaire after an outbreak with six positive employees (at first).
Well of course not. It's not as if simply exposing herself to infection was going to give her a disease. That would be absurd. You have to do it lots of times as recklessly as possible so you deserve to catch it. Covid-19 has to be earned. Well-known fact.
I would certainly expect them to be able to explain why.
Trouble is it's hard to take anything Jenny Harries says seriously - after early in the pandemic she said that WHO recommendations on testing didn't really apply to countries like the UK with its "extremely well-developed public health system". Apparently, the "World" part of the title didn't refer to us - so we didn't need to "test, test, test" like other countries. And our "extremely well-developed public health system" then opted not to test old folk before shipping them out of hospitals and into care homes.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:09 amEven if mask wearing is effective (and it's not clear that it makes much of a difference), that does not mean that it should be made compulsory. If you think it's so obvious that you call something stupid, I expect you to be able to justify your position. I expect that even when the issue is very obvious - such as the effectiveness of homeopathy - let alone one where the UK Deputy Chief Medical Officer Jenny Harries said the evidence is not strong either way.
hthTo answer this question, we need to define the term "wet." If we define "wet" as the condition of a liquid sticking to a solid surface, such as water wetting our skin, then we cannot say that water is wet by itself, because it takes a liquid AND a solid to define the term "wet."
If we define "wet" as a sensation that we get when a liquid comes in contact with us, then yes, water is wet to us.
If we define "wet" as "made of liquid or moisture", then water is definitely wet because it is made of liquid, and in this sense, all liquids are wet because they are all made of liquids. I think that this is a case of a word being useful only in appropriate contexts.
A medical mask is not required for people who are not sick
as there is no evidence of its usefulness in protecting them.
However, masks might be worn in some countries, in
accordance with local cultural habits.
That's the advice for people to protect themselves from getting infected; for those who are infected, the advice is that they should wear a mask.jdc wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:03 pmThere's this from March: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/han ... sAllowed=y
Doesn't include masks in its recommendations for people without symptoms. Says people with symptoms should wear a medical mask though.
A medical mask is not required for people who are not sick
as there is no evidence of its usefulness in protecting them.
However, masks might be worn in some countries, in
accordance with local cultural habits.
The false sense of security issue is still pertinent, but procurement, which was a major concern in March/April, is no longer a concern. The last sentence seems frankly daft, since I fail to see how a badly-used mask is worse than no mask (false sense of security aside).Wearing medical masks when not indicated may result in unnecessary costs and procurement burdens and create a false sense of security that can lead to the neglect of other essential measures, such as hand hygiene practices. Further, using a mask incorrectly may hamper its effectiveness in reducing the risk of transmission.
The risk then was believed to be 'people fiddling with the masks and thus putting their hands near their mouth and nose and infecting themselves that way'.Sciolus wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:51 pmThis seems the most relevant paragraph:The false sense of security issue is still pertinent, but procurement, which was a major concern in March/April, is no longer a concern. The last sentence seems frankly daft, since I fail to see how a badly-used mask is worse than no mask (false sense of security aside).Wearing medical masks when not indicated may result in unnecessary costs and procurement burdens and create a false sense of security that can lead to the neglect of other essential measures, such as hand hygiene practices. Further, using a mask incorrectly may hamper its effectiveness in reducing the risk of transmission.
Re your first point - yeah, that's what I said in my post.Gfamily wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:37 pmThat's the advice for people to protect themselves from getting infected; for those who are infected, the advice is that they should wear a mask.jdc wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:03 pmThere's this from March: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/han ... sAllowed=y
Doesn't include masks in its recommendations for people without symptoms. Says people with symptoms should wear a medical mask though.
A medical mask is not required for people who are not sick
as there is no evidence of its usefulness in protecting them.
However, masks might be worn in some countries, in
accordance with local cultural habits.
The current advice seems to be taking more account of transmission from asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic Covid carriers, so I would interpret the then WHO advice as supporting the wearing of masks to reduce transmission from those who aren't aware of the chance of them being spreaders.
The WHO advice did not seem to consider asymptomatic spreaders, but did recognise that symptomatic patients should wear masks as a means of reducing spread.jdc wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:20 pmRe your first point - yeah, that's what I said in my post.Gfamily wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:37 pmThat's the advice for people to protect themselves from getting infected; for those who are infected, the advice is that they should wear a mask.jdc wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:03 pmThere's this from March: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/han ... sAllowed=y
Doesn't include masks in its recommendations for people without symptoms. Says people with symptoms should wear a medical mask though.
The current advice seems to be taking more account of transmission from asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic Covid carriers, so I would interpret the then WHO advice as supporting the wearing of masks to reduce transmission from those who aren't aware of the chance of them being spreaders.
The March WHO guidance recommended masks for people with symptoms and it didn't recommend masks for people without symptoms, so I'm not sure how it supports the wearing of masks for people without symptoms. The advice issued later didn't clarify previous advice, it superseded it.
(Once we've finished this section of the argument we can start on the strand that we've entirely ignored so far - "Even if mask wearing is effective (and it's not clear that it makes much of a difference), that does not mean that it should be made compulsory." Looking forward to that already.)...our findings continued to support the ideas not only that masks in general are associated with a large reduction in risk of infection from SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV, and MERS-CoV but also that N95 or similar respirators might be associated with a larger degree of protection from viral infection than disposable medical masks or reusable multilayer (12–16-layer) cotton masks. Nevertheless, in view of the limitations of these data, we did not rate the certainty of effect as high.
Unfortunately, that considers the use of face masks as being either worn to prevent the wearer getting infected and worn to prevent the wearer infecting others. When mask wearing includes medics, I would assume there is a likelihood of bias in that the wearers are doing so in a professional setting and so are much more likely to use them correctly. Overall for correlational studies, there is a huge risk of being confounded by mask wearers do ing so because they are more worried and conscientious, so they are also more likely to do other things to help (including, possibly, things not recorded in studies). So we don't really know much yet.jdc wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:00 pmSeeing as we're a dozen posts into this argument and nobody's actually posted any evidence, here's a little something to start us off: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 9/fulltext
...our findings continued to support the ideas not only that masks in general are associated with a large reduction in risk of infection from SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV, and MERS-CoV but also that N95 or similar respirators might be associated with a larger degree of protection from viral infection than disposable medical masks or reusable multilayer (12–16-layer) cotton masks. Nevertheless, in view of the limitations of these data, we did not rate the certainty of effect as high.
The second of those seems to have got underway but no results in yet: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04337541Further high-quality research, including randomised trials of the optimum physical distance and the effectiveness of different types of masks in the general population and for health-care workers' protection, is urgently needed. Two trials are registered to better inform the optimum use of face masks for COVID-19 (NCT04296643 [n=576] and NCT04337541 [n=6000]).
Until such data are available, our findings represent the current best estimates to inform face mask use to reduce infection from COVID-19.
There are no statistics for UK case numbers in March. The UK government failed to organise proper testing.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:04 amOn 15th March Boris Johnson suggested people should work from home becaues the number of cases of Covid-19 was about 1500. Currently, we are being urged to return to work, despite the number of cases being significantly higher and increasing. Why is this?