Starmer

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discovolante
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Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:16 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:56 pm
Prediction: people who mocked Corbyn supporters (and putting-up-with-ers) for lamenting the role of the mainstream media in undermining the Labour leader will suddenly now notice it happening to their spick-and-span media-friendly guy.
At least Blair had the gumption to be a bit slick with the media to get them onside.
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Re: Starmer

Post by headshot » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:15 am

Yeah, my problem with Corbyn, Milne et al, was that they didn’t appear to have any kind of strategy to get the media on side.

Blair and Campbell were masters of that.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:32 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:16 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:56 pm
Prediction: people who mocked Corbyn supporters (and putting-up-with-ers) for lamenting the role of the mainstream media in undermining the Labour leader will suddenly now notice it happening to their spick-and-span media-friendly guy.
At least Blair had the gumption to be a bit slick with the media to get them onside.
Yes, the Sun, Mail etc will always be hostile to the leader of the Labour Party. The point is to make that difficult.

noggins
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Re: Starmer

Post by noggins » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:33 pm

Corbyn managed to mostly lose the Guardian. The f.cking Guardian for f.cking f.cks sake.

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Re: Starmer

Post by AMS » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:15 pm

noggins wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:33 pm
Corbyn managed to mostly lose the Guardian. The f.cking Guardian for f.cking f.cks sake.
And don't forget, Corbyn's director of strategy was a Guardian journalist.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:22 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:32 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:16 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:56 pm
Prediction: people who mocked Corbyn supporters (and putting-up-with-ers) for lamenting the role of the mainstream media in undermining the Labour leader will suddenly now notice it happening to their spick-and-span media-friendly guy.
At least Blair had the gumption to be a bit slick with the media to get them onside.
Yes, the Sun, Mail etc will always be hostile to the leader of the Labour Party. The point is to make that difficult.
I thought the Sun backed Blair?
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

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Re: Starmer

Post by Aitch » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:31 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:22 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:32 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:16 pm


At least Blair had the gumption to be a bit slick with the media to get them onside.
Yes, the Sun, Mail etc will always be hostile to the leader of the Labour Party. The point is to make that difficult.
I thought the Sun backed Blair?
I thought the Sun backed whoever it thought had the best chance of winning, even if only by a small margin.
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I prefer unconventional.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept eccentric
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Re: Starmer

Post by Little waster » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:23 pm

noggins wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:33 pm
Corbyn managed to mostly lose the Guardian. The f.cking Guardian for f.cking f.cks sake.
Well TBF this is the same Guardian that hailed the election of Cameron's spiteful and incompetent Coalition as "the Liberal Moment" and wrote a hagiography for IDS when he announced his plan to starve the poor and disabled unless they stacked shelves for free. They continued to go out to bat for the Coalition's shameful actions right up to the next election while the Guardian's leader writer also served as Cameron's chief speech writer.

The Guardian is liberal not leftwing and those are not synonyms but only occassional fellow travellers.
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

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Re: Starmer

Post by noggins » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:56 pm

Without the Fellow Travellers Labour can’t win a GE.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Little waster » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:44 pm

noggins wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:56 pm
Without the Fellow Travellers Labour can’t win a GE.
Yeah but you can't express apparent incredulity that the Guardian failed to support a left wing candidate when within recent memory they enthusiastically chose to back an openly right wing government over such hard left Labour leaders as Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband.

You may as well express incredulity that Corbyn didn't bring the Daily Mail with him either.
Shamelessly recycling old jokes since 1952.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:51 pm

Little waster wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:44 pm
noggins wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:56 pm
Without the Fellow Travellers Labour can’t win a GE.
Yeah but you can't express apparent incredulity that the Guardian failed to support a left wing candidate when within recent memory they enthusiastically chose to back an openly right wing government over such hard left Labour leaders as Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband.

You may as well express incredulity that Corbyn didn't bring the Daily Mail with him either.
Having lived abroad for yonks, the 'centre' or Overton window in the UK does seem incredibly far shifted to the right. Any genuinely leftist candidate is going to have an uphill battle trying to drag the entire establishment - from political parties to mainstream media outlets to public conversation - with it.

It's important that it happens, though, so I think people need to be patient when it doesn't work out perfectly.
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

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Woodchopper
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Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:55 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:22 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:32 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:16 pm


At least Blair had the gumption to be a bit slick with the media to get them onside.
Yes, the Sun, Mail etc will always be hostile to the leader of the Labour Party. The point is to make that difficult.
I thought the Sun backed Blair?
Yes, you’re right.

The Mail, Telegraph, Express will always be hostile.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:04 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:51 pm
Little waster wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:44 pm
noggins wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:56 pm
Without the Fellow Travellers Labour can’t win a GE.
Yeah but you can't express apparent incredulity that the Guardian failed to support a left wing candidate when within recent memory they enthusiastically chose to back an openly right wing government over such hard left Labour leaders as Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband.

You may as well express incredulity that Corbyn didn't bring the Daily Mail with him either.
Having lived abroad for yonks, the 'centre' or Overton window in the UK does seem incredibly far shifted to the right. Any genuinely leftist candidate is going to have an uphill battle trying to drag the entire establishment - from political parties to mainstream media outlets to public conversation - with it.

It's important that it happens, though, so I think people need to be patient when it doesn't work out perfectly.
Here’s Eric Hobsbawm in the late 70s writing about the decline of the British labour movement (which he said started 30 years before). http://banmarchive.org.uk/collections/m ... bsbawm.pdf

I’m wondering, as of 2020 what would we add to what was at the time a prescient analysis?


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Re: Starmer

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:50 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:51 pm
Little waster wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:44 pm
noggins wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:56 pm
Without the Fellow Travellers Labour can’t win a GE.
Yeah but you can't express apparent incredulity that the Guardian failed to support a left wing candidate when within recent memory they enthusiastically chose to back an openly right wing government over such hard left Labour leaders as Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband.

You may as well express incredulity that Corbyn didn't bring the Daily Mail with him either.
Having lived abroad for yonks, the 'centre' or Overton window in the UK does seem incredibly far shifted to the right. Any genuinely leftist candidate is going to have an uphill battle trying to drag the entire establishment - from political parties to mainstream media outlets to public conversation - with it.

It's important that it happens, though, so I think people need to be patient when it doesn't work out perfectly.
Given this, it is important that leftwing candidates try and communicate to the public how they will benefit from leftwing policies, and try to get that across via the media wherever possible. Appointing a stalinist who praised the taliban as director of communications wasn't the way to go.

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Re: Starmer

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:50 pm

Yes, I'd like to see a lefty leader who had a chance of winning. Corbyn wasn't ever it. He looks like a morris dancer.
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Re: Starmer

Post by bmforre » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:03 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:50 pm
... Corbyn wasn't ever it. He looks like a morris dancer.
Are you now accusing Morris Dancers of having undermined Labor?

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Re: Starmer

Post by dyqik » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:35 pm

bmforre wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:03 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:50 pm
... Corbyn wasn't ever it. He looks like a morris dancer.
Are you now accusing Morris Dancers of having undermined Labor?
Labor, maybe, but that's Australian politics.

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Re: Starmer

Post by Martin_B » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:40 am

dyqik wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:35 pm
bmforre wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:03 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:50 pm
... Corbyn wasn't ever it. He looks like a morris dancer.
Are you now accusing Morris Dancers of having undermined Labor?
Labor, maybe, but that's Australian politics.
Ah, Morris Dancers, MP for Moonee Ponds North and Minister for Ignoring Aboriginal Culture under the Whitlam government. Tosser
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