Starmer
Re: Starmer
Interesting announcement, not more pay for teachers... or free school meals... no, what the kids need are elocution lessons
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66113585
I mean, wtf Kier?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66113585
I mean, wtf Kier?
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Starmer
It's not elocution lessons, it's how to make speeches and have debates. And tbh given the increased dominance of privately-schooled doofuses in public life, it seems sensible to me to tool up more normal people with the skills to handle basic aspects of political life.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued
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Re: Starmer
Rhetoric is an important life skill. Perhaps it shouldn't be, but it is. We learned persuasive writing at school, adding persuasive speaking seems like a sensible idea.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:23 amIt's not elocution lessons, it's how to make speeches and have debates. And tbh given the increased dominance of privately-schooled doofuses in public life, it seems sensible to me to tool up more normal people with the skills to handle basic aspects of political life.
Re: Starmer
Oh great, the next generation of Plandemic and Qanon morons will be even better at being argumentative.
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- El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Starmer
Although ChatGPT was already enabling that.
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Re: Starmer
Tbf I wish I'd learned public speaking skills when I was younger, I have to speak in court for my job and it doesn't come naturally to me at all. It was just something I had to get used to. I'm sure other people are the same with teaching and stuff. But I dunno, seems an odd topic to focus on given the clusterf.ck surrounding it.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.
Re: Starmer
I did like that during a speech about young people learning how to express themselves, he turned round and basically said "No, not you two. You two be quiet."
Re: Starmer
Didn't everybody go to a school that had a Debating Society?
Oh no, of course they didn't, that's just for the posh f.ckers ...
... and people like me who got a scholarship.
Oh no, of course they didn't, that's just for the posh f.ckers ...
... and people like me who got a scholarship.
Time for a big fat one.
Re: Starmer
I went to a school that had a debating club, but that’s quite different from it being taught in lessons. It had a rugby club as well, I didn’t go to either.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
Re: Starmer
My state school had debating as part of English lessons, but then again I grew in Sydney.
Re: Starmer
If we can make this “critical thinking and thought expression” that’d be great.
Expressing thought based on uncritical consumption of “facts”…not so much.
Expressing thought based on uncritical consumption of “facts”…not so much.
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Re: Starmer
Rhetoric/persuasive speaking/presentation skills as part of a meaningful civics curriculum that also included critical thinking, information hygiene and the basics of law would be a very useful thing to teach in schools.
Re: Starmer
My wife is an Information Specialist at a university library and she concurs.
Re: Starmer
Not least because it teaches you how to spot the tricks of rhetoric in others.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:08 pmRhetoric/persuasive speaking/presentation skills as part of a meaningful civics curriculum that also included critical thinking, information hygiene and the basics of law would be a very useful thing to teach in schools.
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Re: Starmer
Obviously I would say this, but on reflection I do find it a bit odd that almost nothing about the legal system is taught in schools. That said I've met plenty of people with law degrees and nothing further whose confidence in their knowledge of the legal system far outstrips the reality. Sounds familiar eh! (By which I mean...in general, not you)EACLucifer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:08 pmRhetoric/persuasive speaking/presentation skills as part of a meaningful civics curriculum that also included critical thinking, information hygiene and the basics of law would be a very useful thing to teach in schools.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.
Re: Starmer
Nah, I'm pretty sure the crackpot market is mainly limited by demand not supply. It might change the demographics of who rises to lead them (fewer privately-educated grifters - I wouldn't be surprised if Piers Corbyn's educational background included this training for example).
However, if more people are trained in the tricks of rhetoric, then they are likely to spot the tricks being used and less likely to fall for them.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Starmer
I guess that's why 'people who think they're important' are so sniffy about people who do 'Media Studies' courses - if done well, they pass on the tricks of the trade, so they can be recognised when applied by 'people who think they're important'.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: Starmer
Nice point
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
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Re: Starmer
One reason everyone should be taught the fundamentals of law and how law comes into being is so as to arm the ordinary person with what they need to push back against the entitled dickhead scofflaws who are utterly convinced the law is what they want it to be. In my current campaigning, that's landowners, but there's plenty of other examples out there.discovolante wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:24 pmObviously I would say this, but on reflection I do find it a bit odd that almost nothing about the legal system is taught in schools. That said I've met plenty of people with law degrees and nothing further whose confidence in their knowledge of the legal system far outstrips the reality. Sounds familiar eh! (By which I mean...in general, not you)EACLucifer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:08 pmRhetoric/persuasive speaking/presentation skills as part of a meaningful civics curriculum that also included critical thinking, information hygiene and the basics of law would be a very useful thing to teach in schools.
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Re: Starmer
There's a book about that: https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-po ... 1780273105EACLucifer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 11:15 amOne reason everyone should be taught the fundamentals of law and how law comes into being is so as to arm the ordinary person with what they need to push back against the entitled dickhead scofflaws who are utterly convinced the law is what they want it to be. In my current campaigning, that's landowners, but there's plenty of other examples out there.discovolante wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:24 pmObviously I would say this, but on reflection I do find it a bit odd that almost nothing about the legal system is taught in schools. That said I've met plenty of people with law degrees and nothing further whose confidence in their knowledge of the legal system far outstrips the reality. Sounds familiar eh! (By which I mean...in general, not you)EACLucifer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:08 pm
Rhetoric/persuasive speaking/presentation skills as part of a meaningful civics curriculum that also included critical thinking, information hygiene and the basics of law would be a very useful thing to teach in schools.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.
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Re: Starmer
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.
Re: Starmer
I'm ok with this policy... having kids is a choice after all, if you can't afford to have three, then don't.discovolante wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:05 pmUuuuuuuuh wot
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ir-starmer
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html
Re: Starmer
Why have any child benefit at all then?TopBadger wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:31 pmI'm ok with this policy... having kids is a choice after all, if you can't afford to have three, then don't.discovolante wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:05 pmUuuuuuuuh wot
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ir-starmer
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Re: Starmer
Not a choice for the kids in question, though, is it?TopBadger wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:31 pmI'm ok with this policy... having kids is a choice after all, if you can't afford to have three, then don't.discovolante wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:05 pmUuuuuuuuh wot
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ir-starmer
The sheer damage to the economy done by the Tories, Austerity and Brexit leaves it hard to fund everything that needs funding, but I really don't agree with this choice - it's a moral issue of course and that's enough reason, but on top of that giving kids a better start gives them more chance of contributing later on in life.