Starmer

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
User avatar
lpm
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm
Location: IMPEACH AND EXTERMINATE

Re: Starmer

Post by lpm » Sun May 17, 2020 9:20 am

Starmer owns a field.

For keeping donkeys.

Land used for keeping donkeys would typically be grade 4 - poor quality. Or even the lowest grade, 5, very poor quality. But Starmer bought it because it was next to his parent's house and they could look at the donkeys out the window. Judging by an aerial view, it might be grade 3a or 3b.

This means a valuation range of £5,000 per acre to £10,000 per acre. Starmer owns 7 acres. I'd guess it's worth about £50,000.

The Daily Mail valued it at £10,000,000.

If you're going to lie, lie big.
I'll miss him after he's died in the pandemic

User avatar
headshot
Fuzzable
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:40 am

Re: Starmer

Post by headshot » Sun May 17, 2020 9:24 am

Accurate...
524AD285-DC78-4B38-8817-D5BC2E464F9D.jpeg
524AD285-DC78-4B38-8817-D5BC2E464F9D.jpeg (305.19 KiB) Viewed 1305 times

AMS
Fuzzable
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by AMS » Wed May 20, 2020 6:46 pm

Interesting comment on recent PMQs:

https://mobile.twitter.com/thhamilton/s ... 7825211392

Basically, look beyond the theatrics - Starmer is forcing the government's hand on policy changes.

User avatar
jimbob
Dorkwood
Posts: 1194
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Starmer

Post by jimbob » Wed May 20, 2020 9:02 pm

AMS wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:46 pm
Interesting comment on recent PMQs:

https://mobile.twitter.com/thhamilton/s ... 7825211392

Basically, look beyond the theatrics - Starmer is forcing the government's hand on policy changes.
Yup, and if the government actually delivers, well, we're in a better place than we'd be otherwise.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

EACLucifer
Snowbonk
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: Starmer

Post by EACLucifer » Wed May 20, 2020 9:07 pm

Starmer's made it very clear he wants the government to succeed in tackling coronavirus, and was determined to use the scrutiny and challenge of opposition to aid them in doing so.

User avatar
jimbob
Dorkwood
Posts: 1194
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Starmer

Post by jimbob » Wed May 20, 2020 9:14 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:07 pm
Starmer's made it very clear he wants the government to succeed in tackling coronavirus, and was determined to use the scrutiny and challenge of opposition to aid them in doing so.
Exactly, which makes Johnson's bluster so bad. And Johnson had had the opportunity to play the statesman.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
jimbob
Dorkwood
Posts: 1194
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Starmer

Post by jimbob » Wed May 27, 2020 11:08 am

Harry Yorke
@HarryYorke1
· 19h
Having spoken to a few Labour contacts today, clear Sir Keir Starmer's strategy on Cummings is to keep quiet and let Conservative MPs do all the talking.

Told that when asked who was doing the broadcast round for the party this morning, one official replied: "Michael Gove".
Harsh but true
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

AMS
Fuzzable
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by AMS » Fri May 29, 2020 1:45 pm

I thought this was an elegantly worded statement too. The line saying Johnson "should have drawn a line under" this was directly aimed at the government line that we "need to move on" from the story.
Keir Starmer wrote:Boris Johnson should have drawn a line under the Dominic Cummings saga but was too weak to act.

The public have sacrificed so much for the health of our nation - which he's now undermined.

And sent a message that there's one rule for them and another for the British people.

User avatar
discovolante
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:18 am

'Interesting' response to the defunding the police question on GMB...
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

User avatar
discovolante
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:52 pm

And looks like they have backfired a bit...

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entr ... ssion=true

(Or oh no it wasn't that, it was a problem anyway?)
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

User avatar
Grumble
Catbabel
Posts: 817
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by Grumble » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:12 pm

“Defund the police” is a f.cking terrible slogan. There’s no easy way to say you agree with the goals without sounding like you want to abolish the police.
I could squeeze my lemon till my blues went away, if I had possession over pancake day

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1156
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Starmer

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:48 am

Yep.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
discovolante
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:59 am

He could have started by saying that he recognizes there are problems with the police and criminal justice system,
that these are (perhaps) actually linked with underfunding of services generally, and talked about the unimplemented recommendations in the review carried out by his now shadow justice secretary in 2017 and which his shadow justice secretary has been repeatedly raising in the commons. Or he could at least not have talked about how many people he has had locked up given the racial disparities in the prison population.

ETA sorry, brought to court, not got in prison.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

User avatar
Grumble
Catbabel
Posts: 817
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:25 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:59 am
He could have started by saying that he recognizes there are problems with the police and criminal justice system,
that these are (perhaps) actually linked with underfunding of services generally, and talked about the unimplemented recommendations in the review carried out by his now shadow justice secretary in 2017 and which his shadow justice secretary has been repeatedly raising in the commons. Or he could at least not have talked about how many people he has had locked up given the racial disparities in the prison population.

ETA sorry, brought to court, not got in prison.
Exactly, that’s a nuanced reply not an easy one to get across in a headline. Any positive response he makes to “defund the police” will be absolutely leapt on by the right wing press.
I could squeeze my lemon till my blues went away, if I had possession over pancake day

User avatar
discovolante
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:29 am

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:25 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:59 am
He could have started by saying that he recognizes there are problems with the police and criminal justice system,
that these are (perhaps) actually linked with underfunding of services generally, and talked about the unimplemented recommendations in the review carried out by his now shadow justice secretary in 2017 and which his shadow justice secretary has been repeatedly raising in the commons. Or he could at least not have talked about how many people he has had locked up given the racial disparities in the prison population.

ETA sorry, brought to court, not got in prison.
Exactly, that’s a nuanced reply not an easy one to get across in a headline. Any positive response he makes to “defund the police” will be absolutely leapt on by the right wing press.
This isn't two weeks before a general election, he has time to build a case. His comments have put off other people who I would imagine don't read the right wing press. The right wing press have four years of finding things to leap on him about, it is going to happen regardless.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

User avatar
Woodchopper
Dorkwood
Posts: 1593
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:04 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:29 am
This isn't two weeks before a general election, he has time to build a case. His comments have put off other people who I would imagine don't read the right wing press. The right wing press have four years of finding things to leap on him about, it is going to happen regardless.
I disagree there. Party leaders can be defined early on and can find it very difficult to change initial perceptions.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Dorkwood
Posts: 1593
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Starmer

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:06 am

Grumble wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:12 pm
“Defund the police” is a f.cking terrible slogan. There’s no easy way to say you agree with the goals without sounding like you want to abolish the police.
Yes, and as argued in the other thread, reforming the police is expensive.

User avatar
discovolante
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:48 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:04 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:29 am
This isn't two weeks before a general election, he has time to build a case. His comments have put off other people who I would imagine don't read the right wing press. The right wing press have four years of finding things to leap on him about, it is going to happen regardless.
I disagree there. Party leaders can be defined early on and can find it very difficult to change initial perceptions.
If a journalist asks you a question you don't have to actually answer it. He could have chosen a few connected points: stretched services across the board, racial disparities in the criminal justice system including the police that need reform (and which have worsened up to the tories), failure of the Tories to implement the recommendations in the Lammy review. None of those need be presented in a way that remotely suggest the police should be defunded.

He's a barrister, his job is literally to present complex information succinctly in the face of hostile questioning. Assuming he did jury trials, that would involve persuading members of the public. He was the human rights advisor to the Policing Board in Northern Ireland, so I assume he has plenty of experience to draw on there as well even without referring directly to it in interviews.

It's a shame that the concern remains more about automatically trying to figure out how to keep the right wing press happy, rather than figuring out how to communicate a message that doesn't alienate an entire demographic.

Anyway here are a few recent headlines from the Sun:

TAKE YOUR TIME Axed Rebecca Long Bailey FINALLY deletes tweet to ‘anti-semitic’ article which got her sacked by Keir Starmer

LABOUR AT WAR Rebecca Long-Bailey says Sir Keir Starmer caused ‘avoidable mess’ by firing her over anti-Semitic conspiracy theory

CORBYN FURY Corbyn leads calls for Rebecca Long-Bailey to be reinstated as Labour civil war threatens to erupt

'SEXIST' LABOUR Sir Keir Starmer has taken over a Labour Party which ‘silences’ women, Lisa Nandy warned

KEIR SCHTUMMER Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer slammed for long silence on the re-opening of schools

DAN WOOTTON It’s rich for Labour to accuse the Tories of a culture war after they’ve belittled BAME women

HARD JUSTICE Sir Keir Starmer and the Jimmy Savile scandal – what was Labour leader’s involvement as head of Public Prosecutions?

A bit of a mixed bag, but already a fair bit of focus on Labour excluding women and ethnic minorities, and a nod towards failure to prosecute sexual predators, which has popped up here and there in other places as well. Whether that 'story' will last several more years or be revived in time for a GE is another matter I suppose.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Dorkwood
Posts: 1156
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Starmer

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:59 am

discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:48 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:04 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:29 am
This isn't two weeks before a general election, he has time to build a case. His comments have put off other people who I would imagine don't read the right wing press. The right wing press have four years of finding things to leap on him about, it is going to happen regardless.
I disagree there. Party leaders can be defined early on and can find it very difficult to change initial perceptions.
If a journalist asks you a question you don't have to actually answer it.
Failure to answer a question is typically reported as tacit support for something.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
discovolante
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:04 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:59 am
discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:48 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:04 am


I disagree there. Party leaders can be defined early on and can find it very difficult to change initial perceptions.
If a journalist asks you a question you don't have to actually answer it.
Failure to answer a question is typically reported as tacit support for something.
OK: 'no I don't agree, the situation is not directly comparable with the US, but I understand concerns and anger about [the cause of injustices in the UK]'. Or some variation thereof, could be worded differently. Although my replies so far have also referred to arguing that public services in general including the police are underfunded.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

monkey
Sindis Poop
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by monkey » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:51 pm

discovolante wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:04 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:59 am
Failure to answer a question is typically reported as tacit support for something.
OK: 'no I don't agree, the situation is not directly comparable with the US, but I understand concerns and anger about [the cause of injustices in the UK]'. Or some variation thereof, could be worded differently. Although my replies so far have also referred to arguing that public services in general including the police are underfunded.
You could even blame it on the Tories, while your at it.

AMS
Fuzzable
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:14 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by AMS » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:24 pm

If Starmer had agreed with defunding the police, you can bet that clip would get dragged up again and again at PMQs, as well as Tory Facebook ads etc, especially every time the Tories were on the ropes on a law and order matter.

User avatar
discovolante
Dorkwood
Posts: 1438
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:36 pm

AMS wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:24 pm
If Starmer had agreed with defunding the police, you can bet that clip would get dragged up again and again at PMQs, as well as Tory Facebook ads etc, especially every time the Tories were on the ropes on a law and order matter.
If you're responding to the posts in this thread, then I don't think I have said that he should have agreed with defunding the police?
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

User avatar
Grumble
Catbabel
Posts: 817
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Starmer

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:10 pm

From the interview he is strongly supportive of the police and fundamentally disagrees with the aims of BLM (UK) in this regard. Must admit I’m not familiar with what their aims are around defund the police. I would hope Starmer was familiar before he commented on them.
I could squeeze my lemon till my blues went away, if I had possession over pancake day

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2957
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: nadir of brie

Re: Starmer

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:31 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:10 pm
From the interview he is strongly supportive of the police and fundamentally disagrees with the aims of BLM (UK) in this regard. Must admit I’m not familiar with what their aims are around defund the police. I would hope Starmer was familiar before he commented on them.
Their argument is that building more prisons and expanding police powers isn't a solution to social problems, and that the institutional racism of the judicial system is only one kind of injustice that it enforces.

Here's a short guardian article - to quote the dénouement:
Between 1993 and 2016, the prison population in England and Wales almost doubled, and within a year of release, almost half of incarcerated adults are reconvicted. We have the largest prison population in western Europe. Despite reforms, training and inquiries into police racism, black Britons make up 12% of adult prisoners and more than 20% of children in custody – compared to just 3% of the general population. Amnesty has reported that anti-gang policing targets black young people with little or no connection to violent crime. But Black Lives Matter protesters do not demand police defunding because of institutional racism alone: it is a demand that seeks tangible, evidenced and effective improvements in public safety for all, beginning with those who need it most.

From domestic violence services to new social housing and the restoration of the educational maintenance allowance for those in post-16 education, there are innumerable investments that should be made before we continue to throw good money after bad. The best way to tackle racism in our criminal justice system and create safer communities for everyone is through reducing police power and resources, while bolstering the capacity of our health, social and educational systems. Keir Starmer’s approach will only add more harm to our society, rather than resolving it.
From https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ves-matter

The UK argument doesn't even require expensive police retraining, just a diversion of funding from invasive policing and incarceration to social programs. It is quite surprising to see a Labour leader opposed to that, though obviously in Starmer's case he's spent a lot of his career as a prominent figure in the rapidly expanding and increasingly intrusive police system, so perhaps it shouldn't be in his case.

A shame he felt he had to dismiss a lot of sensible people's concerns as 'nonsense', though - seems like he's more interesting in impressing the Mail than his own base of voters.

I completely agree with everything disco's posted so far.
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2

Post Reply