US police & murders of black men

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shpalman
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by shpalman » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:57 pm

molto tricky

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jimbob
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jimbob » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:04 pm

And don't forget that bodycam footage contradicted the initial police reports.

Should be perjury or obstruction of justice for the other cops who were witnesses as well
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:12 pm

jimbob wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:04 pm
And don't forget that bodycam footage contradicted the initial police reports.

Should be perjury or obstruction of justice for the other cops who were witnesses as well
Pretty much every time there's footage of any sort it seems to contradict the police report (see, e.g., the George Floyd report I posted above).

You'd think that any conviction that rested substantially on the testimony of any proven-liar cop would immediately be unsafe and quashed - were there any justice.

But suffice to say I don't think police reports, at least in the US, a worth anything much as a source of accurate information.
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Fishnut » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:51 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:50 am
Verso Books have made the ebook of The End of Policing by Alex Vitale free for an undisclosed length of time. I haven't finished reading it yet but what I have read has been truly eye-opening.
Following on from this, Skeptics in the Pub Online tomorrow is with Alex Vitale at 7pm on Twitch.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:58 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:51 pm
Fishnut wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:50 am
Verso Books have made the ebook of The End of Policing by Alex Vitale free for an undisclosed length of time. I haven't finished reading it yet but what I have read has been truly eye-opening.
Following on from this, Skeptics in the Pub Online tomorrow is with Alex Vitale at 7pm on Twitch.
Ooo very good, thanks.
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Matatouille
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Matatouille » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:47 pm

Alex Vitale is a week tomorrow, I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit. Not on this topic but tomorrow is Marianna Spring, the BBC's first disinformation and social media reporter, which should also be good ;).

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Fishnut » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:50 pm

Matatouille wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:47 pm
Alex Vitale is a week tomorrow, I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit. Not on this topic but tomorrow is Marianna Spring, the BBC's first disinformation and social media reporter, which should also be good ;).
So it is. I don't know what's wrong with me, I keep thinking it's May already. I also thought it was Tuesday today. God I need to get some variety in my life, the monotony is destroying my sense of time.
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Matatouille » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:22 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:50 pm
So it is. I don't know what's wrong with me, I keep thinking it's May already. I also thought it was Tuesday today. God I need to get some variety in my life, the monotony is destroying my sense of time.
Its still last March to me!

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:23 pm

If it's any consolation I didn't notice the date either, and even put it in my calendar.
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jimbob » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:53 am

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2021/4/2 ... ent-voting

Ex-Georgia deputy boasted of charging Black people with felonies to make sure they lost their vote

amongst other things
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jimbob » Wed May 26, 2021 7:31 pm

https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/i ... g-database

Police in Phoenix invented a gang (ACAB) so they could add protestors to the state gang membership database and charge them with gang-related crimes.
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by dyqik » Thu May 27, 2021 11:30 am

jimbob wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 7:31 pm
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/i ... g-database

Police in Phoenix invented a gang (ACAB) so they could add protestors to the state gang membership database and charge them with gang-related crimes.
How many of the police are being charged with perjury?

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jimbob » Thu May 27, 2021 12:03 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 11:30 am
jimbob wrote:
Wed May 26, 2021 7:31 pm
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/i ... g-database

Police in Phoenix invented a gang (ACAB) so they could add protestors to the state gang membership database and charge them with gang-related crimes.
How many of the police are being charged with perjury?
I don't know - but qualified immunity seems to be very common and is pretty much immunity without any qualifications for police officers on duty in many jurisdictions in the US
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by IvanV » Thu May 27, 2021 12:29 pm

Let us not forget that in Britain, the courts used to believe the police's unlikely evidence more often than not until quite recently. Numerous cases where the police explained serious damage to the accused as self-inflicted was accepted by the court. The attitude of the establishment 40 years ago is well summed up by Lord Denning in his 1980 comments on the possibility of an appeal by the Birmingham Six.

'Just consider the course of events if their action were to proceed to trial ... If the six men failed it would mean that much time and money and worry would have been expended by many people to no good purpose. If they won, it would mean that the police were guilty of perjury; that they were guilty of violence and threats; that the confessions were involuntary and improperly admitted in evidence; and that the convictions were erroneous. ... That was such an appalling vista that every sensible person would say, "It cannot be right that these actions should go any further." '

Clearly things have changed for the better. But let us not forget how recent that is, and how hard fought.

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jimbob » Thu May 27, 2021 1:28 pm

IvanV wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 12:29 pm
Let us not forget that in Britain, the courts used to believe the police's unlikely evidence more often than not until quite recently. Numerous cases where the police explained serious damage to the accused as self-inflicted was accepted by the court. The attitude of the establishment 40 years ago is well summed up by Lord Denning in his 1980 comments on the possibility of an appeal by the Birmingham Six.

'Just consider the course of events if their action were to proceed to trial ... If the six men failed it would mean that much time and money and worry would have been expended by many people to no good purpose. If they won, it would mean that the police were guilty of perjury; that they were guilty of violence and threats; that the confessions were involuntary and improperly admitted in evidence; and that the convictions were erroneous. ... That was such an appalling vista that every sensible person would say, "It cannot be right that these actions should go any further." '

Clearly things have changed for the better. But let us not forget how recent that is, and how hard fought.
Indeed and don't forget the Daniel Morgan murder, which is incredibly bad looking for many parts of the Met

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... dApp_Other
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jimbob » Thu May 27, 2021 2:43 pm

Of course it wouldn't do to fire a police officer who was actually convicted of murder due to excessive force whilst on duty.

https://www.al.com/news/2021/05/whitmir ... still.html

Whilst putting those police officers who didn't shoot the murder victim on remedial training.

I don't know the race of the victim - but although US police shoot disproportionately high numbers of unarmed black men compared to other people they shoot, they also shoot lots of other people.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Millennie Al » Fri May 28, 2021 1:30 am

Similar to when the officer who refused to kill got fired: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... es-lawsuit Again, another officer arrived and killed the guy. In that case the victime was black. In the Alabama case, he was white: https://www.blackstarnews.com/us-politi ... e-man-with
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jdc » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:13 pm

Derek Chauvin gets 22-and-a-half years in jail for murdering George Floyd https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/de ... ar-AALs9ZI
The three other officers who encountered Mr Floyd that day are facing trial in August.

They and Chauvin also face federal charges of depriving Mr Floyd of his civil rights and a conviction carries a possible death sentence.

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:42 pm

jdc wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:13 pm
Derek Chauvin gets 22-and-a-half years in jail for murdering George Floyd https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/de ... ar-AALs9ZI
The three other officers who encountered Mr Floyd that day are facing trial in August.

They and Chauvin also face federal charges of depriving Mr Floyd of his civil rights and a conviction carries a possible death sentence.
Two years four months for every minute Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck.

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by bolo » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:41 pm

Any bets on how long he'll survive in prison?

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by JQH » Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:05 pm

Maybe they'll keep him apart from the other cons. Otherwise not long.
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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Grumble » Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:38 pm

JQH wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:05 pm
Maybe they'll keep him apart from the other cons. Otherwise not long.
He’ll be fine in with the other white nationalists.
Would you like your chakras realigned?

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:52 pm

Grumble wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:38 pm
JQH wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:05 pm
Maybe they'll keep him apart from the other cons. Otherwise not long.
He’ll be fine in with the other white nationalists.
I'm not sure he can remain a member of the police force while incarcerated.
You can shove your climate crisis up your arse!

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by Grumble » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:20 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:52 pm
Grumble wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:38 pm
JQH wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:05 pm
Maybe they'll keep him apart from the other cons. Otherwise not long.
He’ll be fine in with the other white nationalists.
I'm not sure he can remain a member of the police force while incarcerated.
Oof
Would you like your chakras realigned?

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Re: US police & murders of black men

Post by jimbob » Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:49 am

Not a murder, merely an Ohio police chief retiring after a prank

https://t.co/OusP1ZEdfm?amp=1

because putting KKK stickers on a black subordinate's desk could in no way be considered harassment.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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