Littering

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tenchboy
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Littering

Post by tenchboy » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:39 am

Prompted by the following on the Covid Forum; (with apologies if this against protocol and a hope that you will put it right if it is)
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:39 pm
Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:07 pm
People have been flocking to the beach and even pooing in people's gardens due to a lack of open facilities and an inability to consider anyone but themselves.
A friend who manages some nature reserves on the south coast described visitor behaviour last weekend as the worst he's ever seen in his career (which is >10 years).

Part of this I suppose is people being overexcited after being cooped up so long, but it's pretty disappointing.
After the Durdle Door beach rescue of the merely badly informed young men who jumped vertically from a great height into shallow water there was a follow up story regarding the rubbish that had been left behind all over the beach and cliff tops.
And yesty when I got in from work I noticed this story regarding mountains of litter being left by visitors to various nature reserves: which may be connected to boaf's comment above.
And jut now this about the same behaviour in Yorkshire.

I'm sure it's not just me, when we were young, we were taught that leaving any litter any where was one of the worst possible things you could do. 'The bins were full' or 'There weren't any bins' just wasn't an excuse: you took it out with you, you took home with you and having since spent most of my life since out of doors it's not even 'habit' or 'second nature' you just don't do it; when you leave a place you check and make sure that there is nothing left behind.
And yet leaving litter behind seems to be on the increase - and blatantly too - not just packets papers and tins and bottles thrown behind a hedge, the rubbish is not even thrown and hidden.
Passing a... it's not a village green it's in a town, neither large nor small, and it's a piece of what was probably heath-land that is now kept mowed as a 'community open space' for community events - passing often, as I do, a few years ago, probably ten or more now, it was suddenly noticeable that there was an increase in littering: in the evenings you could tell it had been a nice day and that people had been sitting out and enjoying it because all across this wonderful green open space were piles of tins, bottles packets and carrier bags just left lying in the open. There are bins at this place, all around the outside, the people who leave the rubbish actually had to walk past a bin on their way home! And yet there is no way in the world that I could walk across open land leaving rubbish behind me knowing that people watching me knew that I had left it there.
But to see it on the scale shown in the news stories above is just incredible: something ingrained has been lost.

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Re: Littering

Post by Opti » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:28 pm

From conversations I've had with mates back in the UK it seems that masks and gloves are now the new condoms ... maybe even sharps. As far as litter is concerned. Uggghhhh!
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Re: Littering

Post by dyqik » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:33 pm

Opti wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:28 pm
From conversations I've had with mates back in the UK it seems that masks and gloves are now the new condoms ... maybe even sharps. As far as litter is concerned. Uggghhhh!
They seem to be replacing the Keystone cans and Fireball Whisky miniatures thrown out of passing cars here.

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Re: Littering

Post by jimbob » Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:55 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:39 am
Prompted by the following on the Covid Forum; (with apologies if this against protocol and a hope that you will put it right if it is)
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:39 pm

A friend who manages some nature reserves on the south coast described visitor behaviour last weekend as the worst he's ever seen in his career (which is >10 years).

Part of this I suppose is people being overexcited after being cooped up so long, but it's pretty disappointing.
After the Durdle Door beach rescue of the merely badly informed young men who jumped vertically from a great height into shallow water there was a follow up story regarding the rubbish that had been left behind all over the beach and cliff tops.
And yesty when I got in from work I noticed this story regarding mountains of litter being left by visitors to various nature reserves: which may be connected to boaf's comment above.
And jut now this about the same behaviour in Yorkshire.

I'm sure it's not just me, when we were young, we were taught that leaving any litter any where was one of the worst possible things you could do. 'The bins were full' or 'There weren't any bins' just wasn't an excuse: you took it out with you, you took home with you and having since spent most of my life since out of doors it's not even 'habit' or 'second nature' you just don't do it; when you leave a place you check and make sure that there is nothing left behind.
And yet leaving litter behind seems to be on the increase - and blatantly too - not just packets papers and tins and bottles thrown behind a hedge, the rubbish is not even thrown and hidden.
Passing a... it's not a village green it's in a town, neither large nor small, and it's a piece of what was probably heath-land that is now kept mowed as a 'community open space' for community events - passing often, as I do, a few years ago, probably ten or more now, it was suddenly noticeable that there was an increase in littering: in the evenings you could tell it had been a nice day and that people had been sitting out and enjoying it because all across this wonderful green open space were piles of tins, bottles packets and carrier bags just left lying in the open. There are bins at this place, all around the outside, the people who leave the rubbish actually had to walk past a bin on their way home! And yet there is no way in the world that I could walk across open land leaving rubbish behind me knowing that people watching me knew that I had left it there.
But to see it on the scale shown in the news stories above is just incredible: something ingrained has been lost.
I think some of it recently has been deliberate vandalism as well. Like the damage to Doll Tor stone circle.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Littering

Post by individualmember » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:03 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:39 am
I'm sure it's not just me, when we were young, we were taught that leaving any litter any where was one of the worst possible things you could do. 'The bins were full' or 'There weren't any bins' just wasn't an excuse: you took it out with you, you took home with you and having since spent most of my life since out of doors it's not even 'habit' or 'second nature' you just don't do it; when you leave a place you check and make sure that there is nothing left behind.
Yeah, me too, and I’ve tried to impress this upon my children.

There’s a huge problem around here with fly tipping since the lockdown started, Right up to amounts that must have been dropped out of a Transit, not just the average estate car. My contempt for the antisocial gits who do it has infinite depths. I’d bring back the stocks and dump their rubbish right on top of them :twisted:

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Re: Littering

Post by jimbob » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:44 pm

individualmember wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:03 pm
tenchboy wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:39 am
I'm sure it's not just me, when we were young, we were taught that leaving any litter any where was one of the worst possible things you could do. 'The bins were full' or 'There weren't any bins' just wasn't an excuse: you took it out with you, you took home with you and having since spent most of my life since out of doors it's not even 'habit' or 'second nature' you just don't do it; when you leave a place you check and make sure that there is nothing left behind.
Yeah, me too, and I’ve tried to impress this upon my children.

There’s a huge problem around here with fly tipping since the lockdown started, Right up to amounts that must have been dropped out of a Transit, not just the average estate car. My contempt for the antisocial gits who do it has infinite depths. I’d bring back the stocks and dump their rubbish right on top of them :twisted:
Add the disposable barbeques - a neighbour told me they went for a walk and found one that was still smouldering the other day
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Littering

Post by headshot » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:12 pm

The weird counter to this is that “regular” litter on the streets around here, which is usually made up of fast food wrappings and drinks bottles, has been pretty much non-existent in the lockdown.

My theory is that all the thick f.ckers doing this are the types that would usually be on holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf, but now they’re having to take breaks at UK destinations.

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Re: Littering

Post by individualmember » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:00 am

I look at Facebook this morning and see this. FFS it’s a quiet, single track road that goes past a lake, popular with dog walkers, fishermen (there’s some big carp there, plus what’s in the river), I go for a walk around there regularly... why do those c.nts think they can do it ?
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Re: Littering

Post by individualmember » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:10 am

^sorry, this ongoing thing is really pissing me off. To be fair the council are clearing it up pretty quickly every time but there’s cameras at the junctions at both ends of the road so there should be some record of vehicles going through there, but there’s no sign of any fines or prosecutions happening.

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Re: Littering

Post by MonkeyWrench » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:56 pm

So you object to boomers, but thick f.ckers who would normally holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf (read poor people) is okay?
Good to know.

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Re: Littering

Post by bagpuss » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:54 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:39 am
And yesty when I got in from work I noticed this story regarding mountains of litter being left by visitors to various nature reserves: which may be connected to boaf's comment above.
That article includes a reference to my local reservoir. There's always been a bit of rubbish there but nothing serious. A couple of weeks ago a local resident (nothing to do with the mgmt of the reservoir, he just lives very near) posted on our local fb page that he had picked up 2 full bin bags of rubbish. Less than 48 hours later, he posted again - in that period he had picked up another 4 bags of rubbish.

The fishing platforms have burn marks on them. There is rubbish floating in the middle of the reeds where it's practically impossible to fish it out from. There's dog sh.t all over the place (dogs are permitted but must be on short leads). It's f.cking awful. There's a daily rota in place now for people to clear up - it's madness.

People have been using it to gather illegally - it's out of sight from any road, so pretty safe from police - and have picnics, barbecues and more.

Also, we nearly had a wild fire on a local hill a week ago. Some idiots accidentally set fire to the gorse with their barbecue and then ran away instead of trying to put it out. Thank f.ck a couple saw it, rushed over and stamped it out, and called fire and rescue. Fire fighters said they shouldn't have put out the fire (they got lightly singed) but it was a bl..dy good thing they did. It's a long way from a road so they couldn't have got a vehicle anywhere close.

My conclusion - many people are selfish f.cking idiots. Thank FSM there are others who put themselves out and even put themselves in danger to prevent their actions having major consequences.

On the plus side, weather is sh.t now, no one's barbecuing now.

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Re: Littering

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:05 pm

headshot wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:12 pm
My theory is that all the thick f.ckers doing this are the types that would usually be on holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf, but now they’re having to take breaks at UK destinations.
Ah yes, those "types".

What the f.ck?
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

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Re: Littering

Post by discovolante » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:18 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:05 pm
headshot wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:12 pm
My theory is that all the thick f.ckers doing this are the types that would usually be on holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf, but now they’re having to take breaks at UK destinations.
Ah yes, those "types".

What the f.ck?
Yes, what?
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Re: Littering

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:34 pm

It's very sad that as soon as an apparently new social problem is mentioned, people's first instinct is to blame it on an outgroup (while providing no evidence or even logic in support).

It's also sad that people are quickly outraged when that happens to a group they're in, but not to other groups (about which, dare I say, they may share the same prejudices).

We have to be better than this.
Born at 356.32 ppm CO2 #ShowYourStripes

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Re: Littering

Post by Stephanie » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:10 pm

MonkeyWrench wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:56 pm
So you object to boomers, but thick f.ckers who would normally holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf (read poor people) is okay?
Good to know.
f.cking glad to see this, MW.
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Re: Littering

Post by Stephanie » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:19 pm

Brb just making a "snobby c.nts of scrutable shame thread" which I'll be moving posts to in due course.

Each addition will have commentary written by yours truly and her team of delightful overlords and mods. Other forum members will be encouraged to point and laugh.
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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Martin Y
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Re: Littering

Post by Martin Y » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:31 pm

In the meantime, over on that Facebook, I almost skimmed past what looked like another outgroup-blaming wot-I-reckon thread but I paused at the suggestion that drive through fast food takeaway bags should have the car's number plate printed on the bag, so that people could have their litter delivered back to them with a fine.

Maybe they could do that. I mean the practical bit about printing the reg on the bag. Pressing a fine on someone when you don't know was driving would escalate it to the complexity of Gatso camera speeding fines.

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Re: Littering

Post by tom p » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:34 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:31 pm
In the meantime, over on that Facebook, I almost skimmed past what looked like another outgroup-blaming wot-I-reckon thread but I paused at the suggestion that drive through fast food takeaway bags should have the car's number plate printed on the bag, so that people could have their litter delivered back to them with a fine.

Maybe they could do that. I mean the practical bit about printing the reg on the bag. Pressing a fine on someone when you don't know was driving would escalate it to the complexity of Gatso camera speeding fines.
Reg number & time. The people in the house will know who was driving.
The fine to be paid by the registered keeper of the car regardless of who littered.
If I was driving and my passenger chucked their litter out of the car, I would stop and make them pick it up. I wouldn't mind losing them as a friend because I wouldn't want such a friend.

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Re: Littering

Post by EACLucifer » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:41 pm

Going to add a bit of context that people need to consider on this.

I live within wheelchair distance of a nice local wood. It's got bluebells, wild garlic, spotted woodpeckers, and a massive flytipping problem

To take rubbish to the tip here you need a local resident's permit. You also are not allowed to use a van or pickup. That leaves me f.cked; no room for rubbish on the trike, family's pickup truck, chosen because it's got room for an electric wheelchair is banned. Local council will in theory pickup, however the service is expensive. They won't give you a time, or even a guaranteed day. They won't take things if they get wet before pickup. They insist on charging per part, so, say, breaking up an old wardrobe into six parts to get it down the stairs means they tell you you must pay six times. Fees can thus easily go into the hundreds. I used to live on a very poor estate in the same local authority. There, refuse collectors would simply miss one in two collections. If complaints were made, they would make excuses about people blocking the roads, but they would not remedy the situation. Sometimes this was true, though it ought not block collection, other times it was a lie. Of course, if bins were too full to close, they'd not take them either. Blowing rubbish was one of the issues blighting that estate. When I got my assisted collection in place, four of the first five pickups were missed. Every policy is designed to reduce access to waste disposal, or charge money for it.

As you can imagine, a lot of people end up with waste they cannot dispose of through no fault of their own. Then someone with a van comes along and offers to take it to the tip for a small fee. Of course, if they actually did that, they wouldn't be allowed to drop it off, so instead they tip it.

So if you want to fix fly tipping, before going for harsher and harsher punishments, let people get their waste into the waste disposal system.

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Re: Littering

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:55 pm

Further to EACL's post, at least where my mum lives the council tip was closed for months due to the virus and distancing etc. So anyone who didn't have the ability or willingness to store rubbish for ages was forced to dump it somewhere.

A lot of people do leave litter even where bins are provided, though. The problem might just be that more people went out at once having been cooped up for a long time, leading to a greater density of litter?
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Re: Littering

Post by bjn » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:02 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:34 pm
It's very sad that as soon as an apparently new social problem is mentioned, people's first instinct is to blame it on an outgroup (while providing no evidence or even logic in support).

It's also sad that people are quickly outraged when that happens to a group they're in, but not to other groups (about which, dare I say, they may share the same prejudices).

We have to be better than this.
I’m not a Boomer (only just) and I’ve been to Benidorm. But fair enough, I should have called out both, not just the lazy Boomer insult.

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Re: Littering

Post by headshot » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:04 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:05 pm
headshot wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:12 pm
My theory is that all the thick f.ckers doing this are the types that would usually be on holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf, but now they’re having to take breaks at UK destinations.
Ah yes, those "types".

What the f.ck?
The types who think it's fine to discard all their litter in the countryside.

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Re: Littering

Post by dyqik » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:15 pm

headshot wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:04 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:05 pm
headshot wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:12 pm
My theory is that all the thick f.ckers doing this are the types that would usually be on holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf, but now they’re having to take breaks at UK destinations.
Ah yes, those "types".

What the f.ck?
The types who think it's fine to discard all their litter in the countryside.
On "holiday in Benidorm" is very strange typo for "flytipping in the countryside".

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Re: Littering

Post by JQH » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:18 pm

MonkeyWrench wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:56 pm
So you object to boomers, but thick f.ckers who would normally holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf (read poor people) is okay?
Good to know.
Do re-read the thread to find where I have made any comment about anybody's choice of holiday destination. I think you will find I have made none.
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Re: Littering

Post by jdc » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:30 pm

JQH wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:18 pm
MonkeyWrench wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:56 pm
So you object to boomers, but thick f.ckers who would normally holiday in Benidorm or Magaluf (read poor people) is okay?
Good to know.
Do re-read the thread to find where I have made any comment about anybody's choice of holiday destination. I think you will find I have made none.
It wasn't you who made the comment about holidays, and Monkey Wrench didn't accuse you of making it. You were one of the people who objected to the 'boomer' comment but not the 'Benidorm' one, and it looked to me like he was asking you (along with the others who did likewise) if you're okay with that bit of snobbery.

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