what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

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Stephanie
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Stephanie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:35 pm

JQH wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:15 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:16 pm


The abuse is obviously unacceptable - possibly so obviously that people haven't devoted too much time to pointing that out. I've certainly acknowledged that it's unacceptable. Who do you think is excusing it?
Perhaps "being dismissive of" or "trivialising" would be better choices of verb than "excusing".
I'll try the "so obviously bad that it didn't need pointing out" excuse next time someone calls me out for not criticising abusive or discriminatory language. Cheers.
I dunno, I've looked back, and boaf has said:
Obviously the abuse Rowling has received is indefensible
Certainly the abuse and silencing of women on Twitter is appalling.
I don't think anyone should exactly be tiptoe-ing, but I think it's the "men and activists" in your post who are in the wrong.
I absolutely agree that the response Rowling got was unacceptable.


Millennie Al also said:
What they're not entitled to do is fire off vitriolic abuse.
lpm has said:
I think the whole point is that activists and men should stop policing what women want to tweet. The deliberate bullying and silencing of women on Twitter (and elsewhere) is a major part of this issue.
egbert has said:
If a women points out the vile misogyny of various high-profile trans rights activists they will get called every name under the sun.
tessa k has said:
You're right that women do get piled on more than men do on Twitter and elsewhere and that's something which needs to be addressed as part of a more systemic sexism.
I think boaf's post that you've quoted was to purplehaze's post, which seemed confusing to him, whereas I think generally throughout the thread, people had acknowledged that the response to Rowling was wrong.
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:58 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:34 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:28 pm
The thread was started to talk about Rowling's tweets, which naturally came before the abusive response to them.
You don't consider the opening post and thread title to be abusive?
I don't think so, given that is was referring to what seemed to be a flippantly transphobic tweet. If it had been an apparently racist tweet I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion.

To be clear, a lot of the stuff that's been quoted from twitter is far beyond what's acceptable. But I don't think asking what's wrong with somebody who's just posted transphobia is abuse, and calling transphobia a 'toad' seems positively mild. Isn't there a scene in Harry Potter where somebody puts a spell on Malfoy for being abusive, and a toad comes out of his mouth?

So I think, at least for me, whether or not the OP is acceptable comes down to whether or not it's ok to exclude transmen and non-binary people from a discussion of global development, and more generally to disregard people's own preferences as to their gender identity. The subsequent abuse, while appalling, doesn't justify it. I'm open to being persuaded that she might have had a kernel of a fair point, and messing up how you express yourself on twitter is easy and forgivable, but my first reaction is that her initial tweet was problematic and that she hasn't convincingly explained why excluding trans and non-binary people from discussions of menstruation is so important.
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by lpm » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:09 pm

Really?

Telling a woman to shut up? Tick
Turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack? Tick
Hyperbole? Tick
Linking to a terrible article that distorted and reversed a person's actual words? Tick
Linking to a mad twitter thread from an extremist? Tick
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by purplehaze » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:13 pm

JQH wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:52 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:36 pm
So is the idea that receiving abuse somehow retroactively justifies her original tweet?
The worst that could possibly be said about her original tweet is that it is wrong. Didn't strike me anywhere near as abusive as the responses she got. Normally if a woman said something controversial on the internet and she got replies along the lines of "choke on my dick c.nt" everybody here would be agreed on how disgusting and threatening that behaviour was. But in this case people seem to be excusing it. I'm appalled and disappointed quite frankly.

Maybe I need a rest from this place.
I agree. Its like there is a sanitised version of violence towards women that ought to be acceptable.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by purplehaze » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:15 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:09 pm
Really?

Telling a woman to shut up? Tick
Turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack? Tick
Hyperbole? Tick
Linking to a terrible article that distorted and reversed a person's actual words? Tick
Linking to a mad twitter thread from an extremist? Tick
This.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:27 pm

lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:09 pm
Really?

Telling a woman to shut up? Tick
Turning a difference of opinion into a personal attack? Tick
Hyperbole? Tick
Linking to a terrible article that distorted and reversed a person's actual words? Tick
Linking to a mad twitter thread from an extremist? Tick
The problem with your second point is that it wasn't merely a difference of opinion.

For example, I used to have a non-binary housemate. They would really flip out if they got misgendered (by people they'd already explained their identity to). They also got a lot of abuse when out in public for presenting themself in a way that doesn't conform to any gender norms. A cis billionaire tweeting to the world that they should, in fact, be called a woman because they menstruate feeds into that culture of hostility. In other words, the original tweet was also perceived as an attack, not a personal one but on an entire group of people.

I think it actually is acceptable to tell people to shut up if they're posting attacks on others who are generally less fortunate then them (Rowling is, after all, cis and in a heterosexual relationship - and a billionaire). The people abusing Rowling should also be told to shut up, even if they're women.
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by discovolante » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:30 pm

Can I also just repeat the point made earlier about abuse women who support trans rights get.

This is such an unbelievably toxic subject and people generally seem disproportionately keen to point at the 'bad actors' on both sides to justify their position. And funnily enough the people who suffer most are women, and trans men.
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:30 pm

JQH wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:52 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:36 pm
So is the idea that receiving abuse somehow retroactively justifies her original tweet?
The worst that could possibly be said about her original tweet is that it is wrong. Didn't strike me anywhere near as abusive as the responses she got. Normally if a woman said something controversial on the internet and she got replies along the lines of "choke on my dick c.nt" everybody here would be agreed on how disgusting and threatening that behaviour was. But in this case people seem to be excusing it. I'm appalled and disappointed quite frankly.

Maybe I need a rest from this place.
Not excusing it in the slightest, just saying that out of over 150k tweets, one will probably be able to find something very unpleasant. Being able to nutpick a few idiots, a..eholes, whatever you want to call them, that have said something truly horrible does not mean that everyone else who has criticised Rowling's tweets without using abusive language is wrong or abusive.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by tom p » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:33 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:58 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:34 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:28 pm
The thread was started to talk about Rowling's tweets, which naturally came before the abusive response to them.
You don't consider the opening post and thread title to be abusive?
I don't think so, given that is was referring to what seemed to be a flippantly transphobic tweet. If it had been an apparently racist tweet I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion.

To be clear, a lot of the stuff that's been quoted from twitter is far beyond what's acceptable. But I don't think asking what's wrong with somebody who's just posted transphobia...
Really gotta pick you up on this.
Saying, in an obviously jokey way, that there's a pre-existing word for "people who menstruate" and it's "women" in reference to an article with that clunky phrase in a headline isn't transphobic. Especially in the context of the article which had nothing to do with trans issues and was pretty much about problems women face in the 3rd world (not exclusively, but effectively).
You're just being silly to say that she "posted transphobia". If one is so minded, one could distort the words into being an attack on trans people, but that would be quite a gross distortion, to the point of dishonesty.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:37 pm

discovolante wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:30 pm
Can I also just repeat the point made earlier about abuse women who support trans rights get.
I mean, I once got told I was a child abuser for suggesting that schoolkids should be allowed to wear whatever uniform fits their gender identity*, so I'd say cis-men who support trans rights end up in the firing line for some very unpleasant stuff too.

That said, there seems to be a particular kind of transphobe who absolutely loves being abusive to cis women who disagree with them, all in the name of supposedly protecting cis women.

And transphobes - TERF, conservative and often a mix of both - are very fond of using popup accounts both to dox and to coordinate abusive dogpiles, often just because someone is online and trans.


*Too long ago to remember my exact wording but it was something like "If you think it is wrong to ban girls from wearing trousers, why would you have a problem with trans girls being allowed to wear skirts under the same rules as cis girls".

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:38 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:33 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:58 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:34 pm

You don't consider the opening post and thread title to be abusive?
I don't think so, given that is was referring to what seemed to be a flippantly transphobic tweet. If it had been an apparently racist tweet I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion.

To be clear, a lot of the stuff that's been quoted from twitter is far beyond what's acceptable. But I don't think asking what's wrong with somebody who's just posted transphobia...
Really gotta pick you up on this.
Saying, in an obviously jokey way, that there's a pre-existing word for "people who menstruate" and it's "women" in reference to an article with that clunky phrase in a headline isn't transphobic.
Just like it isn't racist to say "All lives matter", eh? Oh wait...

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:54 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:33 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:58 pm
lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:34 pm

You don't consider the opening post and thread title to be abusive?
I don't think so, given that is was referring to what seemed to be a flippantly transphobic tweet. If it had been an apparently racist tweet I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion.

To be clear, a lot of the stuff that's been quoted from twitter is far beyond what's acceptable. But I don't think asking what's wrong with somebody who's just posted transphobia...
Really gotta pick you up on this.
Saying, in an obviously jokey way, that there's a pre-existing word for "people who menstruate" and it's "women" in reference to an article with that clunky phrase in a headline isn't transphobic. Especially in the context of the article which had nothing to do with trans issues and was pretty much about problems women face in the 3rd world (not exclusively, but effectively).
You're just being silly to say that she "posted transphobia". If one is so minded, one could distort the words into being an attack on trans people, but that would be quite a gross distortion, to the point of dishonesty.
The point is that Rowling was objecting to efforts to include transmen and non-binary people. The article was about menstruation, and while most people who do that are women, not all of them are. So not only was Rowling wrong, she was also saying that transmen and non-binary people aren't worthy of inclusion in the conversation.

And, again, that was the totality of Rowling's response to the article, which gives the impression that she thinks excluding those people is important.

Refusing to recognise people's preferred gender identity and/or seeking to erase them from the conversation because of it absolutely is transphobia. The fact that you don't think it matters because it doesn't affect many people is part of what people are upset about.
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by lpm » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:05 pm

To go back to Fishnut's GRA post, it's worth doing a post-mortem on why the consultation failed, the reforms got stuck in eternal delay and trans rights got yet another set back.

Part of the reason is of course the usual conservative opposition - Tories, religious extremists etc. But part of the reason is trans allies failed to present a cohesive response and the conversation got dominated by the extremists with the 3 word slogan: transwomen are women. Hardly needs saying that the opposition didn't engage in a civil war and instead exerted its influence on the government, which was delighted to have the opportunity to dodge anything controversial.

Whenever people got to the practical problems with self-identification and the proposed GRA - what about children, what about prisoners, what about rape centres - trans allies failed to discuss solutions. Whenever reasonable people wondered what to do with a person who raped women when living as a man, then self-identified as a woman while in prison, there was nothing but abuse and faux outrage. The only permitted answer was, and still is, "transwomen are women, so that person must be moved to a women's prison". Say anything else online and you will be abused as a Terf. Say anything else public meeting and you will be deplatformed and subjected to protests.

Trans allies like JK Rowling, who also have interests in charities supporting women prisoners, express concern about rapists moving to a women's prison and what do they get? They get told it's an attack on an entire group of disadvantaged people and that their words are violence. Plus the usual misogynistic abuse from trolls and idiots. Just think how this plays out in the Daily Mail, the newspaper the government reads to get its policies.

I'm not saying there's an easy answer to the issue, but there must be some way to develop a discussion and get to sensible compromises. We aren't going to win self-identification and more trans rights until we can discuss the genuine problems. Supporting the opening post and telling people "to shut up if they're posting attacks" just leaves us stuck in the dead end. Only by fighting back against the 10%s and being supportive of all the sensible people in the 80% can we get genuine improvements. Parroting transwomen are women is just words, doing nothing to enhance people's lives. Letting the trans extremists win control over what is "allowed" to be discussed has been a disaster for trans people. Encouraging trans allies like JK Rowling to give their views is a way to back out of the trap.

They've made us look like idiots saying things like people who menstruate, they've made us look like lunatics saying rapists must always be moved to women's prisons and they've made us look cruel for insisting physical males can work in women-only places like rape centres. Is this really the way to win friends and influence people?
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by warumich » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:19 pm

Right I've shut up so far because it's clearly a topic that for some reason means a lot to people on both sides, and I really really can't be arsed to get into a protracted online fight (partly because I've set myself the challenge to watch the whole Star Trek back catalogue while in lockdown, but also because I just can't be arsed). So this might be my first and last post on this thread (don't worry I've huffed off if I don't respond, but Star Trek won't watch itself now).

I respect and usually like JK Rowling and I don't personally at first saw what she wrote to be particularly bad or offensive, I had to have it pointed out to me. But then again, I'm just yet another cis straight white male with an opinion. I don't know the lived experience of living a trans life, just as I don't know what it's like to be black or for that matter, female. And therefore, it's not my place to decide what is offensive and what is not. Dressing up as a black person is bad, dressing up as a blonde person is acceptable, divorced from context there should be no difference, but we all know that dressing up as black has all sorts of cultural and historical associations and connotations that make it offensive and, most importantly, it's not the place of the white person to offer some clever argument to justify something that really, really emotionally hurts other people. Just bl..dy accept it and move on.

It's similar with trans-ness. What might seem an innocuous academic argument can really really hurt people, and we as cis people generally don't know the context and history of where this hurt comes from. The correct answer is to say sorry, learn from it and move on. Now I don't know what it's like to be black in this country, or indeed what it's like to be a woman either, and I try to take the same approach there too. But what I gather from my brother (who used to be my sister), and his circle of friends (as well as one of my PhD students who wrote a whole thesis on trans experiences in health care) it really, really, really f.cking sucks to be trans. Suicide rates are through the roof, many get rejected by their own parents and friends when they transition (one of my brother's friends has been completely cut off from his family). Many are desperately lonely because finding a partner who accepts them can be a minefield. And then there is the constant bullying that accompanied many from childhood. Bullying that stays with them through adulthood and comes from all sections of society. I'd write more here, but I'll leave this as I don't want to talk for him, he can do it himself. As I say I'm cis white male so it's not my place to account for you someone else's lived experience, but these are just some of the things I noticed.

Black people are saying now they've had enough, and we're listening, or at least I bl..dy well hope we are for a change. Some, many even, get angry and abusive, which is not cool, but we should aim to understand where it comes from. Black cultural theorists like Stuart Hall or Paul Gilroy have described the "stereotype trap" that follows black reactions to racism. Because black people get stereotyped as aggressive, their very anger at the stereotype confirms the stereotype. It's really quite difficult to work against - they only need one black person to be less of a saint and punch back to confirm to the racists that they're violent by nature. So they have to be extra saints, they have to be saintly in ways that white people never have to be, and when they are, their feelings are discounted because they appear to be more or less content (because of the lack of anger, right?).

We know this about race. Now listen to trans people. Really listen for a change. They're hurting, they're really really hurting, from a lifetime of micro and sometimes macro aggression. Nothing ever seems to get better, at the moment it's getting worse and they're under attack from lots of different groups, and when some of them see red and unwisely lash out, the stereotype gets confirmed and they can safely be comfortably ignored again as the aggressors. I don't care, I really don't give a sh.t about the ins and outs of Rowling's argument about menstruation and womanhood, she might have a point that stands by its own, but it has a whole lot of context to it that has been ignored because it discounts lived lifetimes of constant aggression and anti trans prejudice. If white people had never been racist against black people, then wearing black face might be as inoffensive as peroxide hair. But we have been, and it's not.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Squeak » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:49 pm

Is like to thank fishnut for her detailed lots ft. I've heard variations of those worries from several directions over the years and while I often stay out of public discussions on trans issues, I will use your post as a handy pointer next time I need a summary of the evidence around the safety issues of treating transwomen as women.

I also want to thank warumich for his personal perspective on this. I think it's a very valuable reminder of the vulnerability of the people this thread is ostensibly about and who seem not to be participating in.

The abuse that jk has received is utterly appalling and I don't think can be justified,v regardless of whether its coming from traumatised trans folk or from MRAs in disguise. As a side effect, they make it easier for non-shouty voices to be entirely excluded from public conversation, which is particularly unfortunate when it comes to what should be a nuanced and multifaceted discussion about how we, as a society, unpick some of our most entrenched and barely examined ideas about identity. (Does your new foetus have a visible penis?! So exciting!)

However (without wishing in anyway to dismiss the abuse that followed) JK is not just a billionaire, she's an incredibly powerful voice on Twitter, with a massive following, and she's a gifted writer, and someone with form in this area, so she knew that anything on trans issues that she wrote would be received uncharitably. She knew what she was doing.


I wish she'd thought "'people who menstruate', that's a rubbish bit of jargon, but, huh. ''some women, some girls, and some transmen' is both clunky and imprecise". Then, she could have a public conversation about whatever she liked, whether it's providing support for young girls who menstruate in developing countries or whether we need new, less clunky words to describe overlapping subsets of people. She's good at new names for things.

She didn't have to conflate menstruation with womanhood but she chose to, knowing that it would hurt people who are already bullied and victimised because of who they are. That disappoints me.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by purplehaze » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:00 pm

The Scum.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1 ... 8781712388

How low can a newspaper go?

Despicable.

There are trans women who do support J K Rowling

Debbie Hayton, physics teacher
Fionne Orlander, awaiting surgery
Kristina Harrison, paramedic

It's worthwhile checking out their twitter feeds. I'm not going to cherry pick their views.

This is an interesting read as well.

https://quillette.com/2020/06/07/jk-row ... -spectrum/

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Stephanie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:00 pm

Thank you, warumich and squeak for your thoughtful posts.
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by jimbob » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:43 am

A nuanced thread by a male-female transsxual

https://twitter.com/lpriccio/status/1270878790881734656
I transitioned in 1998. At the time, my politics on trans issues would have been considered radical. By 2011 or so, my views had become part of mainstream liberalism. In 2020, I think I might be a borderline reactionary. My actual views haven’t changed at all over these 22 years
I am not literally female. I have always wished that I were. That’s why I’m a transsexual — an outlier. I believe that a just society should make room for its outliers as much as it can. And transition medicine and social integration in preferred gender really is very effective.
But we actually need to be harmless. For MTF trans people especially. And things like visible penises in changing rooms and trans women competing in women’s sports is definitely heavily flirting with not being harmless.
To say nothing of putting trans or “trans” sex offenders in women’s prisons. Jesus f.cking Christ. I’m frankly mortified anyone has ever demanded that in my name.
I've missed out several of her posts.

And when it comes to places like women's refuges. I wouldn't be surprised if trans people also needed refuges, but they should be different to women's refuges because of the context.
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Stephanie » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:41 am

jimbob wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:43 am
And when it comes to places like women's refuges. I wouldn't be surprised if trans people also needed refuges, but they should be different to women's refuges because of the context.
Right, I'm just going to point to this from Fishnut's post
Fishnut wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:43 pm
On point 2, a particular focus of concern is the risk that trans-women pose to cis-women in domestic abuse shelters and refuges. This concern is unfounded. Trans-women are allowed to access these facilities already, both legally, as a result of the Equality Act 2010, and practically as the policy of the facilities, and there have been no problems. A report commissioned by Stonewall based on in-depth interviews with 15 organisations across England, Scotland and Wales found that trans women were already being given access to refuges and while there may be issues regarding transgender residents,
Refuges can be an intense environment as you can imagine and other service users have discomfort with each other for a lot of reasons, and often there can be issues, if it’s not a trans issue, more often there is an ethnic or a religious or sexual orientation issue or other issues that occur... So it is within our policy that where there are other service users that have discomfort around sharing services with trans users we will work with them to support and educate them in the same way as we would with any other equality issue in general. (page 15)
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:13 am

lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:05 pm
They've made us look like idiots saying things like people who menstruate, they've made us look like lunatics saying rapists must always be moved to women's prisons and they've made us look cruel for insisting physical males can work in women-only places like rape centres. Is this really the way to win friends and influence people?
This paragraph can only make sense to someone who puts radically different values on the wellbeing of cis and trans women.

Where do you think female sex offenders get sent? Where do you think men who sexually assault men get sent? I knew a lad back in school who ended up working as a prison officer, on a women's wing. Preventing sexual assault was one of the toughest parts of the job. Only cis women there. And we know that trans women do atrociously in mens prisons. Prisons already have to deal with the presence of people who have sexually assaulted people of the same gender as the rest of the inmates, this wouldn't change a damn thing.

And trans people can already be excluded from single sex spaces under the 2004 act if it is a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate end. Making GRCs easier to get won't change that. The example given in the act is group counselling for female victims of sexual assault. Of course, if we're talking centres as a whole, rather than individual counselling sessions, you easily run into a problem where, in order to protect cis women from having someone in the same damn building with different genitals, you block trans women from having any access to support. That would only be an acceptable tradeoff to someone who places rather different values on the wellbeing of cis and trans women.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by purplehaze » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:26 am

I find the term cis offensive. It's not inclusive.

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:15 pm

For some reason I didn't get notifications about the more recent posts on this thread so I'm catching up now. Thanks to Fishnut for such thorough, objective work.

There's an article here that looks at why JKR has chosen to speak out now, provides some stats and data (some of them already covered by Fishnut) and an overview of some of the issues.
Rowling explains, she felt compelled to write about after reading of the Scottish government’s latest progress towards changing gender recognition laws. ... “I couldn’t shut out those memories [of my own assault] and I was finding it hard to contain my anger and disappointment about the way I believe my government is playing fast and loose with women’s and girls’ safety."
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... der-debate

Yet again it's worth stating that she was not abused by a trans person but by a cis het male.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:44 pm

Rowling's point wasn't about prisons or refuges, it was about language.

She was arguing against the use of inclusive language, either because she doesn't think transmen should be called men or because she doesn't think it's worth considering them in conversations about their health.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by purplehaze » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:01 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:44 pm
Rowling's point wasn't about prisons or refuges, it was about language.

She was arguing against the use of inclusive language, either because she doesn't think transmen should be called men or because she doesn't think it's worth considering them in conversations about their health.
Buck Angel, transman. Pinned tweet.

https://twitter.com/BuckAngel

Every time you attack biology you attack my transition. I was born female and transitioned using medical assistance to live fully “male” today. I am still biologically female and will forever be. It is transphobic to say biology doesnt exist.


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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: what the hell is wrong with JK Rowling?

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:05 pm

That's not really a response to Boaf's post. Buck Angel calls himself a man. You seem regularly confused about what people are saying.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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