Edward Colston statue pulled down

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EACLucifer
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:55 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:32 pm
A thing of beauty.
f.ck that b.llsh.t.

Colston was born to a prosperous family, and was a wealthy merchant and Tory MP.

The slave trade he ran was for the benefit of wealthy plantation owners, and wealthy investors

The statue was erected as a result of a campaign by a wealthy industrialist, who stumped up the shortfall when the public proved uninterested in funding it.

The statue was defended by Tory councillors and MPs, and by the Society of Merchant Venturers

So of course some idiotic prick has to put up an ugly, prejudiced caricature targetting the working class. f.ck that sh.t, it wasn't the working class that created the man, nor the statue, nor that kept the statue there.

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Boustrophedon
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by Boustrophedon » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:08 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:55 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:32 pm
A thing of beauty.
f.ck that b.llsh.t.

Colston was born to a prosperous family, and was a wealthy merchant and Tory MP.

The slave trade he ran was for the benefit of wealthy plantation owners, and wealthy investors

The statue was erected as a result of a campaign by a wealthy industrialist, who stumped up the shortfall when the public proved uninterested in funding it.

The statue was defended by Tory councillors and MPs, and by the Society of Merchant Venturers

So of course some idiotic prick has to put up an ugly, prejudiced caricature targeting the working class. f.ck that sh.t, it wasn't the working class that created the man, nor the statue, nor that kept the statue there.
It's not the well to do respectable working class that are turning out to protect statues, though is it? The assorted lowbrow right wingers who turned out to protect amongst others, a statue of George Eliot, are I suspect the target of that particular caricature and not Coulson and his ilk.

Anyway I think the statue of de Gaulle should go, he hated the British, resented our help during the war and still bore a petty grudge when we applied to the Common Market, so pull him down while you are at it.
...zoologically improbable and/or terrifying to small children.

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Fishnut
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by Fishnut » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:05 am

While it was written the day after the statue came down I've only just seen this interview with Superintendent Andy Bennett, the one who made the call not to let the police intervene. It's a great interview and he sounds like a really level-headed guy.
“I called HQ and I said, ‘In our decision-making we need to think about what’s most important.’

“People will say we allowed them to roll it all the way to the docks. What would have happened if we stopped people and arrested them?

“We would have had to guard the statue. If you’ve got a police cordon protecting a statue of a man who made his money trading slaves, you can imagine how different things might have been.”

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Tessa K
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:50 am

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:05 am
While it was written the day after the statue came down I've only just seen this interview with Superintendent Andy Bennett, the one who made the call not to let the police intervene. It's a great interview and he sounds like a really level-headed guy.
“I called HQ and I said, ‘In our decision-making we need to think about what’s most important.’

“People will say we allowed them to roll it all the way to the docks. What would have happened if we stopped people and arrested them?

“We would have had to guard the statue. If you’ve got a police cordon protecting a statue of a man who made his money trading slaves, you can imagine how different things might have been.”
Good article. I like the detail that he arrived on his bike.

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Fishnut
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by Fishnut » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:24 pm

Bristol City Council have reverted to idiotic form - they have decided to treat the statue removal as criminal damage and have made it a criminal case that the police not have to investigate. Not only that, but no-one in the council is admitting to being the one who made the official report. According to the Bristol Post,
We don’t know if the decision was made by the mayor himself because the council has so far refused to tell us. In fact, it has ignored our questions asking why and when its “evidential statement” was submitted to the police. Or who signed it.
The Post has decided not to publish the photos of the suspects and gives a really clear explanation of why they don't support the prosecution,
We think the majority of Bristolians accept that the years of frustration and offence at the statue’s existence mitigate what happened two weeks ago. That is why the Bristol Post or Bristol Live will not publishing the police photographs. We are not criticising the police and - unlike the council - have no influence over whether or not those responsible should be sought. But we do not agree that the actions of those young people should be reduced to a simple act of criminal damage which ignores the complex context and history around it.

Furthermore, we think that the council has made the wrong decision to make a formal complaint. In a city which prides itself on its liberal non-conformity, this was the council’s chance to demonstrate to those offended by the statue that they had been heard and that the future would be different.

But it has squandered that opportunity.

Worse still, its refusal to either take responsibility for or to be open about its role in potential prosecutions has simply emphasised the fact that nothing has changed. Which is exactly why the statue was pulled down in the first place.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:45 pm

I imagine it'd be tricky finding a jury for that case. Gotta exclude people who are opposed to celebrating human traffickers on the one hand, and racists on the other, so you're looking for 12 non-racists who are fine with monuments to slavery.
now I'm falling asleep and she's calling acab

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Woodchopper
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:00 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:45 pm
I imagine it'd be tricky finding a jury for that case. Gotta exclude people who are opposed to celebrating human traffickers on the one hand, and racists on the other, so you're looking for 12 non-racists who are fine with monuments to slavery.
That's not really how it works in Britain. There is much less scope to challenge a jury member than in the US.

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snoozeofreason
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by snoozeofreason » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:07 pm

Any prosecution would have to pass the CPS's usual two stage test. There would need to be evidence likely to convince a jury that the defendant(s) had committed the crime (which there might well be). But there would also have to be reason to think that prosecution would be in the public interest, which would be a harder point to argue. I'd guess that CPS would take advantage of the public interest test to avoid launching a controversial prosecution, particularly given that Covid has added to an already significant backlog of more serious cases.
In six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them. The human body was knocked up pretty late on the Friday afternoon, with a deadline looming. How well do you expect it to work?

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Martin Y
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by Martin Y » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:12 pm

Perhaps their intention is actually to discourage future groups of protesters from deciding to follow suit and spontaneously remodel the town centre to reflect their own cause, whatever it turns out to be.

"Well, you didn't go after those guys. You're obviously just biased against hedgehog rights, you fascists".

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FairySmall
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Re: Edward Colston statue pulled down

Post by FairySmall » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:00 pm

Martin Y wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:12 pm
Perhaps their intention is actually to discourage future groups of protesters from deciding to follow suit and spontaneously remodel the town centre to reflect their own cause, whatever it turns out to be.

"Well, you didn't go after those guys. You're obviously just biased against hedgehog rights, you fascists".
Given what happened to the grave of Scipio Africanus (no, not that one), it's a fair guess. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53112915

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