Should we have statues at all?

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discovolante
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by discovolante » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:43 am

Tessa K wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:08 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:53 am
Boustrophedon wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:30 am


Mary Whitehouse or Amy Winehouse?
Paul Whitehouse, one of the creators of the Fast Show, which had Amy Winehouse in it once.

Or maybe, the actual White House.
Casablanca
I went to a bar in Soho once that was full of paintings of Amy Winehouse for sale, painted by the owner. Some were quite good but it was a bit odd having her face peering down at you from every angle.

But yeah Amy Winehouse signage and memorabilia in Camden is...something, anyway.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Tessa K » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:23 pm

discovolante wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:43 am
Tessa K wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:08 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:53 am

Paul Whitehouse, one of the creators of the Fast Show, which had Amy Winehouse in it once.

Or maybe, the actual White House.
Casablanca
I went to a bar in Soho once that was full of paintings of Amy Winehouse for sale, painted by the owner. Some were quite good but it was a bit odd having her face peering down at you from every angle.

But yeah Amy Winehouse signage and memorabilia in Camden is...something, anyway.
I used to live near her house and after she died I was constantly stopped by fans of many nations asking directions. It's surprising how few people can read a map.

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Grumble » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:23 pm
discovolante wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:43 am
Tessa K wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:08 am


Casablanca
I went to a bar in Soho once that was full of paintings of Amy Winehouse for sale, painted by the owner. Some were quite good but it was a bit odd having her face peering down at you from every angle.

But yeah Amy Winehouse signage and memorabilia in Camden is...something, anyway.
I used to live near her house and after she died I was constantly stopped by fans of many nations asking directions. It's surprising how few people can read a map.
Did you ever get creative with your directions?
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:36 am

Grumble wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:23 pm
discovolante wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:43 am


I went to a bar in Soho once that was full of paintings of Amy Winehouse for sale, painted by the owner. Some were quite good but it was a bit odd having her face peering down at you from every angle.

But yeah Amy Winehouse signage and memorabilia in Camden is...something, anyway.
I used to live near her house and after she died I was constantly stopped by fans of many nations asking directions. It's surprising how few people can read a map.
Did you ever get creative with your directions?
It was tempting, especially when there had been several on the same day. Before that I lived near the British Museum and was constantly asked for directions to it. It was always really close so I just used to point in the general direction and say There. That was the back entrance though. There was no point giving complicated directions to anyone who didn't speak English. The request was usually a string of foreign words with the words British Museum in them. Any Brits should have been able to follow the street signs.

I don't know why I get accosted so much, I suspect because I'm so conspicuous and female so they think I'm safe. You could almost say I'm statuesque (back on topic, see what I did there?)

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:50 am

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:36 am
Grumble wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:23 pm


I used to live near her house and after she died I was constantly stopped by fans of many nations asking directions. It's surprising how few people can read a map.
Did you ever get creative with your directions?
It was tempting, especially when there had been several on the same day. Before that I lived near the British Museum and was constantly asked for directions to it. It was always really close so I just used to point in the general direction and say There. That was the back entrance though. There was no point giving complicated directions to anyone who didn't speak English. The request was usually a string of foreign words with the words British Museum in them. Any Brits should have been able to follow the street signs.

I don't know why I get accosted so much, I suspect because I'm so conspicuous and female so they think I'm safe. You could almost say I'm statuesque (back on topic, see what I did there?)
Should we have Tessa K at all?
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:12 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:50 am

Should we have Tessa K at all?
Ouch

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Aitch » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:31 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:50 am
Should we have Tessa K at all?
Well, either NO-ONE should have one or EVERYONE should have one.

Simple as that.

;)
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:33 pm

Aitch wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:31 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:50 am
Should we have Tessa K at all?
Well, either NO-ONE should have one or EVERYONE should have one.

Simple as that.

;)
I could knit a tiny me for anyone who wants one... (as long as you promise not to stick pins in it)

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Gfamily » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:10 pm

Aitch wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:31 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:50 am
Should we have Tessa K at all?
Well, either NO-ONE should have one or EVERYONE should have one.

Simple as that.

;)
"Statues or bust"
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Tessa K » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:39 am

Trump's latest on statues being defaced or removed:
He condemned those who targeted statues of Confederate leaders as "angry mobs".

Mr Trump called the racial equality demonstrations "a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children".

"We will not be silenced," he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53284607

That's not many steps away from the white pointy hood linguistically.

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by tenchboy » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:37 am

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:39 am
Trump's latest on statues being defaced or removed:
He condemned those who targeted statues of Confederate leaders as "angry mobs".

Mr Trump called the racial equality demonstrations "a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children".

"We will not be silenced," he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53284607

That's not many steps away from the white pointy hood linguistically.
Well the most obvious riposte to that is, "these confederates are not heroes and they do not represent our values. They lost, didn't win, came second: take em out and melt em down"
My thought redesign of the conf*d*r*te flag had 'They lost' 'Didn't win' 'Came second' & 'Ha Ha' As the four mottoes to replace the stars (if stars there be) on the four arms of he diagonal cross. I have thought a couple of times of doing a mock up on paintnet, but I just can't be arsed, you know how it is when the actual idea of doing something is more exciting than actually carrying it through?, so if anyone is looking for something to pass the time on a wet week-end <looks out window> be my guest. (me? I'm reading Richard Jefferies, Amaryllis at the Fair, and am not to be distracted.)

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Tessa K » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:15 pm

Or just a flag with this image:

Image

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Martin Y » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:53 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:39 am
Trump's latest on statues being defaced or removed:
He condemned those who targeted statues of Confederate leaders as "angry mobs".

Mr Trump called the racial equality demonstrations "a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values, and indoctrinate our children".

"We will not be silenced," he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53284607

That's not many steps away from the white pointy hood linguistically.
I was struck by the language. The people wanting racial equality are "merciless". Gosh. They want to "erase" history. Here was me thinking they wanted to highlight it. etc.

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by tenchboy » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:01 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:15 pm
Or just a flag with this image:

Image
An excellent choice!
I feel a complete coat of arms coming on with that for the helm and crest.
Latin motto withunder: Murdo et tu es Cognitum es Spoiler:

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:06 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:01 pm
Latin motto withunder: Murdo et tu es Cognitum es Spoiler:
Hmmm, I'd render that as stercore es et scis, which also scans pleasingly (stērcǒr(e) ěs ēt scīs if I'm doing it right - a dactyl then a spondee, so you say stercores et scis with two long vowels at the end, ramming home the "and you know (it)" part of the message, which I think is the funniest part.

And they said my A level in Latin would never come in handy.
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by basementer » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:12 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:01 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:15 pm
Or just a flag with this image:

Image
An excellent choice!
I feel a complete coat of arms coming on with that for the helm and crest.
Latin motto withunder: Murdo et tu es Cognitum es Spoiler:
I would render it merdam es et scis but a better linguist will probably arrive shortly has already arrived.
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:22 pm

I think that would be merda es et scis - the verb to be doesn't take an object so you don't need the accusative case.

The fact that it's still perfectly intelligible is presumably why all Latin's descendant languages have largely dropped noun declensions (except for pronouns, not sure why).
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by tenchboy » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:58 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:22 pm
I think that would be merda es et scis - the verb to be doesn't take an object so you don't need the accusative case.

The fact that it's still perfectly intelligible is presumably why all Latin's descendant languages have largely dropped noun declensions (except for pronouns, not sure why).
Dun't really matter what it is as long as Neil Tennant is singing it to the tune of Go West whist standing on the front of a B52 in which the KLF are also gong batshitinsane doing Americawhatimeislove you know, a sort of a medley.

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Boustrophedon » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am

I find it strange that the USA, so proud of its independence should still celebrate its colonial oppressors in the city names shared with cities in the UK. Most other former colonies are only too ready to rename their old colonial cities.
So let us encourage the US to rename the cities, New York, Washington, Birmingham, Boston, Cambridge, Manchester. Etc, etc.

I know loadsabollocks, but just think of the fun if people in these cities thought there was a campaign to rename them.
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by bmforre » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:11 am

Boustrophedon wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am
I find it strange that the USA, so proud of its independence should still celebrate its colonial oppressors in the city names shared with cities in the UK. Most other former colonies are only too ready to rename their old colonial cities.
So let us encourage the US to rename the cities, New York, Washington, Birmingham, Boston, Cambridge, Manchester. Etc, etc.

I know loadsabollocks, but just think of the fun if people in these cities thought there was a campaign to rename them.
I doubt the Dutch would allow New York to reclaim the name Nieuw Amsterdam.

What would the Indian name be? Can't use "Manhattan", not acceptable in Brooklyn, Queens etc.

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:59 am

bmforre wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:11 am
Boustrophedon wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am
I find it strange that the USA, so proud of its independence should still celebrate its colonial oppressors in the city names shared with cities in the UK. Most other former colonies are only too ready to rename their old colonial cities.
So let us encourage the US to rename the cities, New York, Washington, Birmingham, Boston, Cambridge, Manchester. Etc, etc.

I know loadsabollocks, but just think of the fun if people in these cities thought there was a campaign to rename them.
I doubt the Dutch would allow New York to reclaim the name Nieuw Amsterdam.

What would the Indian name be? Can't use "Manhattan", not acceptable in Brooklyn, Queens etc.
It would be Lenapehoking:
Teh wiki wrote:In the precolonial era, the area of present-day New York City was inhabited by Algonquian Native Americans, including the Lenape. Their homeland, known as Lenapehoking, included Staten Island, Manhattan, the Bronx, the western portion of Long Island (including the areas that would later become the boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens), and the Lower Hudson Valley.
I don't think the Dutch name (nor the earlier French Nouvelle Angoulême) really get around the issue of European colonial naming.

OTOH, the city is <1% Native American - almost everyone who lives there either descends from European settler-colonialists or are more recent immigrants in the European-American society (over a third are foreign-born). I think the areas that have reverted to Native names tend to be under Native political control; European-Americans don't really seem to view themselves as non-native inhabitants of the land, nor view European languages as non-native.
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by monkey » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am
I find it strange that the USA, so proud of its independence should still celebrate its colonial oppressors in the city names shared with cities in the UK. Most other former colonies are only too ready to rename their old colonial cities.
So let us encourage the US to rename the cities, New York, Washington, Birmingham, Boston, Cambridge, Manchester. Etc, etc.

I know loadsabollocks, but just think of the fun if people in these cities thought there was a campaign to rename them.
Out of the two that I know a bit of the history of, Washington DC was named after the bloke and Birmingham (AL) was only founded in 1871 and named because they wanted it to be big and industrial like Birmingham in the UK. Birmingham is also 75% black, not sure it's made up of the demographics you're assuming. But I am also assuming you are talking about the cities most people migh've heard of, not the many others with the same names. There's a good reason why you have to go "[city], [state]" when telling people where you're from in the US :)
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:59 am
OTOH, the city is <1% Native American - almost everyone who lives there either descends from European settler-colonialists or are more recent immigrants in the European-American society (over a third are foreign-born). I think the areas that have reverted to Native names tend to be under Native political control; European-Americans don't really seem to view themselves as non-native inhabitants of the land, nor view European languages as non-native.
There's loads of cities with Native American derived names, even in areas where there's now pretty much no Native Americans. The most prominent one I can think of off the top of my head is Tallahasee, the state capitol of Florida. Many states have names derived from NA language too: Massachusetts, Alabama, Alaska, the Dakotas, Mississippi...

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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by JQH » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:29 pm

Toronto is Huron for "Meeting Place". Or so I'm told.
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by basementer » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:50 pm

JQH wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:29 pm
Toronto is Huron for "Meeting Place". Or so I'm told.
That sounded familiar. Canberra likewise is said to be derived from Ngunnawal for 'meeting place', but a little research finds people suggesting that it might actually come from 'cleavage' because it's between a pair of hills.
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Re: Should we have statues at all?

Post by Boustrophedon » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:42 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 pm


Out of the two that I know a bit of the history of, Washington DC was named after the bloke

The bloke whose family name came from some land they owned in Tyne and Wear. So ultimately named after a UK place.
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