US Election

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Grumble
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Re: US Election

Post by Grumble » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 pm

lpm wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:19 pm
I want Trump to tweet more. His tweets on this would be highly amusing. Give him back his phone!
He gave her permission. He’s caved. He won’t say so but he absolutely has.
“Real Racist Twunt” wrote:in the best interest of our Country, I am recommending that Emily and her team do what needs to be done with regard to initial protocols, and have told my team to do the same.
I don’t believe he actually wrote that though.
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lpm
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Re: US Election

Post by lpm » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:41 pm

He totally didn't write that!
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Grumble
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Re: US Election

Post by Grumble » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:50 pm

lpm wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:41 pm
He totally didn't write that!
Of course not, but I can’t believe it would be posted from his account without his knowledge or that the transition would start without his say so.
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Re: US Election

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:19 am

Not got the guts to admit he lost, but not got the guts to fight it out, either. Pathetic.

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Re: US Election

Post by Chris Preston » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:24 am

On the subject of the US election, it has led to some quite unusual spam. This was received today (addressed to me at my University address) and I am quite happy to quote it in full.

There are multiple things wrong with the claims, not least of which is Australia doesn't use voting machines. We still have the old-fashioned paper and pencil approach.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Preston,

I'm fed up to the eye balls having to tolerate the fake news people's belligerence and allegations that there was no voter fraud in the recent 2020 US presidential election.

According to my research, there was massive voter fraud, and there's also some evidence that Big Tech, with electronic voter tabulation machines sourced from the communists, have been implicated in the voter fraud. See the following link for evidence:

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/art ... ballotgate

The above link is to a US Catholic Christian website, and it contains a video. It's a must see and hear!! If you're interested in the truth. "Truth is not a Coward."

Once data is stored in a computer electronic medium, such data can easily be changed, manipulated, or whatever else, without anyone being none the wiser. It's very easy to do so, except that most people don't know about it, or perhaps don't want to know about it - so that their luncheon appointments may not suffer.

For example, the following SQL computer program code, command:

UPDATE Washington set devil = devil + 5000, angel = angel - 5000;

would easily access the database named Washington, and add 5000 votes to the database field named devil, and subtract 5000 votes from the database field called angel.

So far as I'm aware, there seems to be no defence against someone accessing a voting database and executing such a program command, especially if the database is stored in "The Cloud" i.e. stored in an electronic device sited in a rogue country where cyber fraud is easy to accomplish with impunity.

Such voter frauds seem highly likely to move on to Australia, if they aren't already happening.

Computers and the internet now form an indispensable utility in daily living, as water and electricity do. And so Big Tech must be regulated by severe legislation, with accompanying severe sanctions. Enacting solely a "Code of Conduct" would make even the chooks cackle with laughter.

Regards.

Joseph Costa
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Re: US Election

Post by Little waster » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:51 am

Just be careful not to type “Import antigravity” especially in Australia where you might end up flying upwards through the ground. :shock:
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Re: US Election

Post by malbui » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:58 am

I used to teach two MSc courses, one on Cybersecurity and the other on the Audit of Information Systems. I’d have loved to have that mail in those days so I could show it to the students for a light-hearted 15 minute group chat.
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Re: US Election

Post by Little waster » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:23 am

I’m still hoping Rudy and co. go full on FOTL* but that might be a bit too on the nose even for 2020.

Little of family Waster.

*not Fruit of the Loonm, the other one.
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Re: US Election

Post by jimbob » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am

From JREFISF

https://youtu.be/9gIAtDxyTaM

TV Evangelicals predicting a Trump victory and explaining why it's still going to happen
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: US Election

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:58 am

Chris Preston wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:24 am
Joseph Costa wrote:So far as I'm aware, there seems to be no defence against someone accessing a voting database
I knew there were alleged problems with these voting machines, but I hadn't realised anybody could get read-write access to the database without so much as a password!
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Re: US Election

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:31 am

More lolsuit news; they are appealing, but they are only appealing one tiny part of it. They are appealing the judge denying their motion to amend. Thing is, you don't get to appeal piecemeal. You don't get to keep coming back with "and another thing". Even if they win this, it doesn't address the standing issue that kills their case stone dead, and if they don't appeal that now, they don't get to, as I understand it.

It's trying to get someone to put a new coat of paint on the topsides of a vessel that is holed below the waterline and sinking fast. American lawtwitter is talking about it as a case-killing mistake.

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Re: US Election

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:01 am

jimbob wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am
From JREFISF

https://youtu.be/9gIAtDxyTaM

TV Evangelicals predicting a Trump victory and explaining why it's still going to happen
Wow, just wow.

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Re: US Election

Post by tenchboy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:09 am

jimbob wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am
From JREFISF

https://youtu.be/9gIAtDxyTaM

TV Evangelicals predicting a Trump victory and explaining why it's still going to happen
Much fun: enjoyed that.
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Re: US Election

Post by Little waster » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:58 am

jimbob wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am
From JREFISF

https://youtu.be/9gIAtDxyTaM

TV Evangelicals predicting a Trump victory and explaining why it's still going to happen
TBF to Vanilla ISIS they are right about one thing, God clearly supported Trump’s administration.

I mean if he didn’t I imagine he would have sent us a plague or something as a warning and I think we would have heard about that ...

The bit at the end with the shouty lady did have a strong “One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest” day room vibe.
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Re: US Election

Post by lpm » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:11 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:31 am
More lolsuit news; they are appealing, but they are only appealing one tiny part of it. They are appealing the judge denying their motion to amend. Thing is, you don't get to appeal piecemeal. You don't get to keep coming back with "and another thing". Even if they win this, it doesn't address the standing issue that kills their case stone dead, and if they don't appeal that now, they don't get to, as I understand it.

It's trying to get someone to put a new coat of paint on the topsides of a vessel that is holed below the waterline and sinking fast. American lawtwitter is talking about it as a case-killing mistake.
I was trying to understand this Pennsylvania appeal last night. I think it is:-

When you appeal, you say: "The judge was wrong about a matter of law X" and then ask for a remedy: "So please over-rule him on X and give us a retrial / overturn the verdict".

The Trump Campaign (plus two individual voters) sued seven counties in Pennsylvania plus Secretary of the Pennsylvania Commonwealth (Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania and Virginia are commonwealths not states). They sued in Federal court.

They ran into two major problems.

(1) Judge Brann refused to allow them to amend their complaint. They had filed the law suit, then amended it by dropping loads of claims, then wanted to amend it yet again at the last minute claiming that they accidentally forgot stuff. The judge basically told them "You formally submitted this, too late now".

(2) A problem with "standing". Due to states rights and the federation structure, US Federal courts have great powers but are highly restricted in what they can touch. US Federal courts have a three-part test to determine whether a party has standing to sue:

1. The plaintiff, i.e the Trump campaign, must have suffered an "injury in fact". This means an injury which is "(a) concrete and particularized and (b) actual or imminent".
2. There must be a causal connection between the injury and the conduct brought before the court
3. It must be likely, rather than speculative, that a favorable decision by the court will redress the injury

Judge Brann dismissed the case without bothering to hear oral evidence. Why? Because of problem (2). He said the Trump campaign (and the two individual voters) had no standing to sue. The judge wrote:
The United States Constitution limits the power of the federal judiciary... without [standing] a federal court lacks jurisdiction to rule on the merits of an action... The plaintiff bears the burden of establishing standing... The Trump Campaign’s theory also fails because neither competitive nor associational standing applies, and it does not assert another cognizable theory of standing.
The judge also described why the Trump Campaign can't moan about problem (1), basically doing a hypothetical of "even if they satisfied standing, they still wouldn't be able to amend their suit". So they got a "denial of the motion for leave to amend" failure on top of the standing failure.

To appeal Judge Brann's dismissal of the law suit, therefore, Giuliani & Co need to go to the appeal court and say "Judge Brann was wrong about a matter of law - we do have standing so he shouldn't have dismissed our case - so please over-rule him on standing and overturn his verdict to dismiss and make him hear the case. Oh, and by the way, we want to amend our suit so tell him he's got to change his mind on that as well."

So before Trump filed their appeal documents US lawyers thought it would be a real challenge for Giuliani to come up with something inventive to solve standing and were curious to hear what it would be. When Giuliani filed last night they turned eagerly to the section on standing... and found... er... nothing.

Not just a feeble argument. Zero argument.

As EACL says, they have failed to appeal against Judge Brann's dismissal of the case for standing. They moan on about problem (1), spending a few pages on how mean and nasty the judge was to not let them amend. They couldn't think up anything to solve their problem (2).

This means Judge Brann's ruling that they didn't have standing remains in force and cannot now be changed. There is no further mechanism to get an appeal on standing before any court.

Hence the appeal court (and SCOTUS) automatically deny - because even if Giuliani & Co win their argument, it would just go back to the original district court and immediately get dismissed again for failure to establish standing. In technical terms, SCOTUS would "deny certiorari" - which means they don't think it's worthy of getting a writ of certiorari (the term for agreeing to hear the case) simply because there's no point.

In EACL's hypothetical, Trump's case was holed below the waterline by the torpedo of standing and suffered damage above decks from the bomb of amendment denial, and in the appeal they are only asking for the above decks damage to be repaired by the appeal court/SCOTUS. The reply will be "what's the point of us mending your above decks damage when the torpedo sunk you?"
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Re: US Election

Post by lpm » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:41 pm

The two individual voters in the Pennsylvania case are fun to talk about as well.

One guy mail-in voted in Lancaster County but forgot the stupid secrecy envelope thing. So his vote was not counted by Lancaster County and they did not give him any means to "cure" his vote. The other guy mail-in voted in Fayette County and his vote wasn't counted for unknown reasons.

So they sued Lancaster County and Fayette County, right?

Wrong. They sued 7 other counties, such as in Philadelphia, plus Secretary Boockvar. Both Lancaster County and Fayette County are Republican strongholds. No point in suing them to prevent votes from being counted or certified.

The tortuous reasoning is that Secretary Boockvar, who oversaw Pennsylvania's elections, encouraged all counties before the election to allow "notice-and-cure procedures". Some counties did just this and let voters cure problems like the secrecy envelope. Lancaster and Fayette counties did not. So it was unfair to the two individuals to deny their votes but allow similar cases in other counties to be cured.

The two individuals claimed in the suit that they had suffered personal injury from not having their votes counted. Judge Brann agreed. Of the three tests for "standing" they immediately pass the first: "injury in fact".

Then they promptly failed the second and third. The second test is causation: however defendent counties had nothing to do with the curing or counting of votes in other counties and have no means of helping the two plaintiffs with their right to vote; while Secretary Boockvar was trying to help the plaintiffs get their voting rights rather than hindering. The third test is redress: the proposed solution - rule out votes in the other counties - does nothing to redress the injury suffered by the two individuals or reinstate their right to vote.

Giuliani & Co appear to have forgotten these two individuals in the appeal. But then again, there was absolutely no chance any appeal would get standing under the second and third tests, so easier to pretend to forget and go and get drunk instead.
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Re: US Election

Post by lpm » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:45 pm

Double
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Re: US Election

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:35 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:41 pm
The two individual voters in the Pennsylvania case are fun to talk about as well.

One guy mail-in voted in Lancaster County but forgot the stupid secrecy envelope thing. So his vote was not counted by Lancaster County and they did not give him any means to "cure" his vote. The other guy mail-in voted in Fayette County and his vote wasn't counted for unknown reasons.

So they sued Lancaster County and Fayette County, right?

Wrong. They sued 7 other counties, such as in Philadelphia, plus Secretary Boockvar. Both Lancaster County and Fayette County are Republican strongholds. No point in suing them to prevent votes from being counted or certified.

The tortuous reasoning is that Secretary Boockvar, who oversaw Pennsylvania's elections, encouraged all counties before the election to allow "notice-and-cure procedures". Some counties did just this and let voters cure problems like the secrecy envelope. Lancaster and Fayette counties did not. So it was unfair to the two individuals to deny their votes but allow similar cases in other counties to be cured.

The two individuals claimed in the suit that they had suffered personal injury from not having their votes counted. Judge Brann agreed. Of the three tests for "standing" they immediately pass the first: "injury in fact".

Then they promptly failed the second and third. The second test is causation: however defendent counties had nothing to do with the curing or counting of votes in other counties and have no means of helping the two plaintiffs with their right to vote; while Secretary Boockvar was trying to help the plaintiffs get their voting rights rather than hindering. The third test is redress: the proposed solution - rule out votes in the other counties - does nothing to redress the injury suffered by the two individuals or reinstate their right to vote.

Giuliani & Co appear to have forgotten these two individuals in the appeal. But then again, there was absolutely no chance any appeal would get standing under the second and third tests, so easier to pretend to forget and go and get drunk instead.
That is bonkers!

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Re: US Election

Post by cvb » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:24 pm

jimbob wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am
From JREFISF

https://youtu.be/9gIAtDxyTaM

TV Evangelicals predicting a Trump victory and explaining why it's still going to happen
That is f.cking bonkers

The angel woman is top of the mad as a bunch of frogs league table

No wonder she advises Trump

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Re: US Election

Post by jimbob » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:50 pm

cvb wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:24 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am
From JREFISF

https://youtu.be/9gIAtDxyTaM

TV Evangelicals predicting a Trump victory and explaining why it's still going to happen
That is f.cking bonkers

The angel woman is top of the mad as a bunch of frogs league table

No wonder she advises Trump
I did see a comment saying "worst handjob ever"
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: US Election

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:55 pm

I feel a bit empty now that I'm not slavishly addicted to polls.
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Re: US Election

Post by Vertigowooyay » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:05 pm

We’ve gone full overboard now Trump is retweeting Randy Quaid.
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Re: US Election

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:18 pm

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:05 pm
We’ve gone full overboard now Trump is retweeting Randy Quaid.
So Trump managed to wrest his phone back from whoever had used it to put out the transition tweet.
He really doesn't care how far he pushes things.

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Re: US Election

Post by bjn » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:01 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:58 am
Chris Preston wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:24 am
Joseph Costa wrote:So far as I'm aware, there seems to be no defence against someone accessing a voting database
I knew there were alleged problems with these voting machines, but I hadn't realised anybody could get read-write access to the database without so much as a password!
Or audit trails for those with access.

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Re: US Election

Post by Little waster » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:19 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:55 pm
I feel a bit empty now that I'm not slavishly addicted to polls.
So... No thoughts on the upcoming 2022 elections for the House of Representatives then? The Repugs flipping 4-8 seats would make Biden’s life very difficult.

I'm sure 538 have a percentage tracker for the likelihood of a midterm red wave. Perhaps you should go check...
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