Re: US Election
Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:08 pm
She can run in the 2068 election.
She'll be the same age then as Joe Biden is now.
She'll be the same age then as Joe Biden is now.
Really? You don't?secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:49 amI don't understand why some of you like AOC so much.
Gfamily wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:38 amReally? You don't?secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:49 amI don't understand why some of you like AOC so much.
secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:49 amI don't understand why some of you like AOC so much. She's a member of the DSA, she endorsed Bernie Sanders, she says things like 'we don't have a Left party in the United states'. In my experience these positions haven't been very popular around here, and it's a bit weird to see some of their most strident critics appearing to endorse them now. A cynical person might suggest it reflects the rather superficial way Liberals tend to engage with politics.
These are fair criticisms of Corbyn as a politician in many ways, though the party establishment didn't cover themselves with glory either, but I supported him when he was leader of the Labour party because I broadly agreed with his political objectives. The same goes for AOC. Her being a much better politician and generally being more presentable than Corbyn is a bonus, because it makes her more likely to win, but it's not why I want her to win. Conversely, although the problems with Corbyn's leadership were causes for significant concern, the concern for me was that he wouldn't win the GE. His problems in themselves didn't make me want him to lose.El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:47 amIf Jeremy Corbyn was good with the media, was a great leader, inspired people across the political spectrum and was a fine politician then I'd've supported him.
He wasn't. He's an ally of antisemites, a terrible leader, put tons of people off Labour and only did well in the 2017 election because Theresa May was also pathetic.
AOC is good with the media and seems like a fine politician. Early days, but if she does well as a leader then she'll have my support.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though. AOC backs Biden now he is leader. On the other hand, many people ostensibly on the left, including several on here, spent the run up to the last general slagging Corbyn off. Corbyn's chances of winning were not independent of large numbers of people who allegedly wanted him to win talking loudly about how sh.t they thought he was.shpalman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:16 amI don't think anyone here wanted Corbyn to lose, we just didn't expect him to have any chance of winning, even against the worst prime ministers that Britain has had in recent times; similarly, I don't think anyone here wants Biden to lose just because he isn't Bernie Sanders. Even AOC.
I don't think us talking here affected the GE at all.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:40 amThis is exactly what I'm talking about though. AOC backs Biden now he is leader. On the other hand, many people ostensibly on the left, including several on here, spent the run up to the last general slagging Corbyn off. Corbyn's chances of winning were not independent of large numbers of people who allegedly wanted him to win talking loudly about how sh.t they thought he was.shpalman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:16 amI don't think anyone here wanted Corbyn to lose, we just didn't expect him to have any chance of winning, even against the worst prime ministers that Britain has had in recent times; similarly, I don't think anyone here wants Biden to lose just because he isn't Bernie Sanders. Even AOC.
Exactly.Gfamily wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:52 amI don't think us talking here affected the GE at all.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:40 amThis is exactly what I'm talking about though. AOC backs Biden now he is leader. On the other hand, many people ostensibly on the left, including several on here, spent the run up to the last general slagging Corbyn off. Corbyn's chances of winning were not independent of large numbers of people who allegedly wanted him to win talking loudly about how sh.t they thought he was.shpalman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:16 amI don't think anyone here wanted Corbyn to lose, we just didn't expect him to have any chance of winning, even against the worst prime ministers that Britain has had in recent times; similarly, I don't think anyone here wants Biden to lose just because he isn't Bernie Sanders. Even AOC.
Out on the doorsteps we had a lot of people questioning Corbyn's leadership, but we defended the party and made it clear that a Conservative win would be a disaster.
ETA, at least, this one did.
Gabriel Pogrund
@Gabriel_Pogrund
Police cars revolving light EXCLUSIVE: The Sunday Times has obtained Labour's secret list of target seats for the election
It reveals Murphy and Milne fought "deranged" offensive campaign focused on Tory Leave seats
Hidden from staff, this version was updated 15th Nov and leaked by a trade union (1/5)
9:44 PM · Dec 21, 2019·Twitter for Android
It reveals that despite polls Labour targeted 60 seats and defended just 26
The list includes Tory seats with majorities of more than 5,000 like Stourbridge, Dover and Gloucester
Echoes Murphy's claim that Labour would reject polling. "We ripped up those rules,' she said. (2/5)
Gabriel Pogrund
@Gabriel_Pogrund
·
Dec 21, 2019
Some seats appear to be political - for example Labour continued to target
@lucianaberger
in Finchley and Golders Green but it did not prioritise
@RuthSmeeth
in Stoke on Trent North
Ditto with several Corbynsceptics as resources were marshalled elsewhere 3/5
Gabriel Pogrund
@Gabriel_Pogrund
·
Dec 21, 2019
Source says campaign was based on three motives:
- disprove defensive approach of 2017
- show that Lab support concentrated in non-Remain areas
- internal politics, change complexion of PLP
"Unite are behind this," they say (4/5)
More a description of me, really.Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:29 am...
* originally autocorrupted to “photo-fascist” which seemed apt.
I’m not disputing bad tactics but “focussed on Tory Leave seats” is a bit of a stretch, their graphic highlights 6 Tory Leave seats with majorities greater than 5000 but they were targets #54 through to #60 which TBH is exactly the sort of seat I’d expect to see so far down the list, in just the sort of place the likes of Blyth would appear on the Tory target list.
I think a lot of people have been saying this since 4 years ago - Trump is just a symptom of deeper US dysfunction and unpleasantness. The imminent decapitation of the hydra isn't going to kill the beast.Little waster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:29 amAt some point you have to say yes Trump is a horrible proto-fascist* c.nt but he can only do the things he does because the people beneath him follow through with his demands. Yes he demanded his own secret police to snatch US citizens off the street and disappear them in unmarked vans, without a whisper of their Miranda Rights (f.ck you can tell how sh.tty 2020 is that I can even write that sentence with only a hint of hyperbola) but that only happened because everyone in the chain of command from POTUS down to the lowliest jackbooted thug agreed to go along with it.
I take it you don't subscribe to Natural NewsBird on a Fire wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:07 am
The treatment of, say, the Ferguson protestors under Obama wasn't much better. They teargassed kids and senators, and rubber-bulletted kids and journalists bank then too, and a bunch went missing or died oddly. I don't actually remember a huge swell of pro-BLM support from the right at that time, nor calls for armed insurrection.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 58273?s=21With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???
That's exactly what it is.FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:30 pmThe very cynical part of me wonders if it's a strategy to sow mistrust and confusion in voting; first to put off as many people as possible from mail-in voting (which would hurt Biden more, democrats being seen to be more likely to vote by mail), second to try and raise voting in person (which would help Trump (opposite of the first point)) and third, preparing for the outcome of a close election (with a Biden win), to have as many people as possible primed to think that this win came from mail-in voting is therefore fraudulent and then use that to try and force an outcome in his favour.
Something similar to this happened in Bolivia last year, and the US supported a coup that removed the guy who actually won from office. He was a leftist, though.headshot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:33 pmThat's exactly what it is.FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:30 pmThe very cynical part of me wonders if it's a strategy to sow mistrust and confusion in voting; first to put off as many people as possible from mail-in voting (which would hurt Biden more, democrats being seen to be more likely to vote by mail), second to try and raise voting in person (which would help Trump (opposite of the first point)) and third, preparing for the outcome of a close election (with a Biden win), to have as many people as possible primed to think that this win came from mail-in voting is therefore fraudulent and then use that to try and force an outcome in his favour.
The huge issue Biden's going to have is that if there's a big switch to mail-in ballots, the results won't be accurately called on the night of the 3rd, and it may look like Trump's winning. The resistance against the media calling the election for Trump with an incomplete ballot needs to be started now.
Ah no, that's absentee voting, for people who have a home here and another golf club there.