Re: TV shows being cut or taken down for racism
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:20 pm
^^ good moaning.
Open to critical enquiry
https://scrutable.science/
His blazing rows were with Bill Owen, who was pretty left wing. Sallis stayed out of it.individualmember wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:50 pm...
IIRC the actor who was blacked-up (ok indianed-up) was pretty right wing. He got into real arguments with the other actors in Last Of The Summer Wine over his admiration for Enoch Powell, etc, and only lasted one series.
...
So I imagined the stupid Englishmen and the incompetent/deranged Germans?
Well, Herr Flick was a bit deranged, but I don't remember any others being deranged, and he was in the SS.Aitch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:24 pmHis blazing rows were with Bill Owen, who was pretty left wing. Sallis stayed out of it.individualmember wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:50 pm...
IIRC the actor who was blacked-up (ok indianed-up) was pretty right wing. He got into real arguments with the other actors in Last Of The Summer Wine over his admiration for Enoch Powell, etc, and only lasted one series.
...
So I imagined the stupid Englishmen and the incompetent/deranged Germans?
Well, the Colonel and his Captain (forget their names) were also cowardly and incompetent, Flick was incompetent and deranged, there were the two English airmen who were on the dim side and, in the final episode (the one where Gruber turns up after the war, married to Helga), the liberating Brit officer is patronising and ignorant.
Blame here lies not just with the comedians, who long before the current scandal had distanced themselves from the more disturbing of their creations, but also with producers and commissioners. It is worth wondering if this could have happened had there been more black people in senior positions in British television. In a culture that was largely monotone, had blacking up come to be regarded as a mere taboo; the true depths of its toxicity, and the long and ugly history behind it, not really understood?
Me too. I do wonder what it's like for him though being the go-to guy for anything to do with racism. Good for his career but being expected to speak only on race issues or to be the spokesperson for every POC must get frustrating. And he has to deal with a lot of racists on Twitter.Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:38 pmThis is an excellent piece from David Olusoga (I'm rapidly becoming a massive fan of his),
Blame here lies not just with the comedians, who long before the current scandal had distanced themselves from the more disturbing of their creations, but also with producers and commissioners. It is worth wondering if this could have happened had there been more black people in senior positions in British television. In a culture that was largely monotone, had blacking up come to be regarded as a mere taboo; the true depths of its toxicity, and the long and ugly history behind it, not really understood?
Everytime I hear that I think Galton and Simpson. (If you're too young to know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galton_and_Simpson )
Nice article. I thoroughly recommend his book 'Black and British', though it's not a comfortable read.Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:38 pmThis is an excellent piece from David Olusoga (I'm rapidly becoming a massive fan of his),
The BBC series related to the book is on iPlayer until May next year.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:50 amNice article. I thoroughly recommend his book 'Black and British', though it's not a comfortable read.Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:38 pmThis is an excellent piece from David Olusoga (I'm rapidly becoming a massive fan of his),
Regarding little Britain, was the black face controversial or criticised by anyone at the time? I don’t rememberer it being, I just recall it being a darling of the pop culture media.secret squirrel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:50 amNice article. I thoroughly recommend his book 'Black and British', though it's not a comfortable read.Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:38 pmThis is an excellent piece from David Olusoga (I'm rapidly becoming a massive fan of his),
Likewise avoided it, but aware of some of it, especially the stuff about disability, which was absolutely horrific.Fishnut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:38 amI didn't watch Little Britain but my sister loved it. I didn't like the stereotypes it perpetuated, particularly the way it treated disabled people and people on benefits which were the bits I remember seeing. I couldn't articulate why at the time but now I realise it's because it was punching down and making life so much harder for people who already had it hard. I don't really remember the blackface which either suggests I didn't see those parts or it didn't strike me as significantly more crass than the rest of the show.
Among my friends and acquaintances there was contemporaneous criticism about the depiction of trans, disabled and working class folk.Bewildered wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:00 amSo were these criticisms of little Britain made a lot at the time and I just missed them?
Wikipedia has a section which refers to criticism made at the time, but it amounts to one passing comment by Victoria Woods in a news article and a single quote of a journalist referring to criticism which states there were many complaints.
I've been curious about this so have done a bit of googling. I've not come up with anything much, but I think it may in part be due to it being the relatively early days of the modern internet. I was able to find one Guardian review of the first episode which said,Bewildered wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:00 amSo were these criticisms of little Britain made a lot at the time and I just missed them?
Wikipedia has a section which refers to criticism made at the time, but it amounts to one passing comment by Victoria Woods in a news article and a single quote of a journalist referring to criticism which states there were many complaints.
I have to admit, was surprised by the 'dyslexic' comment. It seems unnecessary and nasty.Little Britain (BBC2), a new comedy series, is a surreal mix of soft toys and scrabble. It is written and performed by David Walliams, who is clearly dyslexic, which may be why all the towns such as Hurdy and Flange sound a bit askew, and Matt Lucas, who frightened me as George Dawes and frightens me now. Observe the gentle and diffident Walliams trying to extract homework ("It's been two weeks and I still haven't received your assembled Kitchener") from Lucas, a Cabbage Patch doll with logorrhea. I recommend the mad Scots piper and Daffyd, the only gay man in a Welsh village, and Sebastian, who fancies the prime minister. That just about covers the country. Tom Baker, giving a sonorous air of plausibility to the proceedings, urges dissatisfied viewers to make obscene phone calls to the credits. "There's mine. Quick!"
I haven't been able to find anything in the opinion sections but it seems that if there was any controversy it was significant enough to warrant comment.BBC3 has finally got a hit on its hands after the new series of Little Britain pulled in almost 2 million viewers.
The Matt Lucas and David Walliams' sketch show last night converted the critical acclaim it has received into ratings, as the second series opened on BBC3.
I never watched it, but was uneasy at what I knew about it. I hadn't articulated to myself why, but it was the "punching down not up" nature of a lot of the humour.bjn wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:10 amAmong my friends and acquaintances there was contemporaneous criticism about the depiction of trans, disabled and working class folk.Bewildered wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:00 amSo were these criticisms of little Britain made a lot at the time and I just missed them?
Wikipedia has a section which refers to criticism made at the time, but it amounts to one passing comment by Victoria Woods in a news article and a single quote of a journalist referring to criticism which states there were many complaints.
I did watch the show.tom p wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:58 amA bunch of people who didn't watch a show discussing it and being appalled by what they have never seen.
Enlightening!
I watched it all, from the first episode on BBC3, which I used to watch at the time. I really enjoyed it; but some of it was uncomfortable & it was eventually ruined by endless repetition.
The blackface was maybe one sketch in one episode (possibly a couple of episodes). They had a recurrent character called Bubbles DeVere played by Lucas. She was a very posh and very fat old woman with a wig, who lived in a posh health spa and who told everyone "call me bubbles, darling". The manager was persistently pursuing her for her massive unpaid bills & she would try to use her non-existent sexiness to persuade the manager. In one of these sketches she was in the sauna with a friend, played by Walliams, who was blacked up (and also in a fat suit and dressed as a woman) and the pair of them were trying it on with someone (possibly the manager). The blackness wasn't played for laughs and there wasn't any racist anti-black stereotypes. The skin was just brown. The sketch wouldn't have been any different if the fat suit had been orange (as in Trumpesque fake tan) or pink.
The Lou & Andy sketches (Matt Lucas, Andy, in the wheelchair being pushed by Walliams, Lou, with a a curly wig) derived from a sketch they first had imagining Lou Reed & Andy Warhol. That sketch had 2 basic jokes, firstly Lou would offer a range of options to Andy, who would say "Want that one", then, after repetitive confirmation, Lou would say, "But you don't like X. You always say X is <<insert detailed exposition about why X is a bad thing>>". Andy replies "Yeah, I know". Lou: "So, which one do you want then". Andy, pointing to X, "Want that one".
The other joke was that Lou will ask a stranger for help to do something basic with Andy &, while he is laboriously explaining the help he needs, Andy will do a complicated version. A good example I remember is Lou pushing Andy along the side of a swimming pool. He asks the attendant for help getting Andy into the water. Whilst he's doing this, we see Andy running along the side of the pool, climbing up the diving board, jumping in, then swimming to the side, climbing out and back into the wheelchair, just in time for Lou to finish talking.
I would say that the most uncomfortable sketch was the racist professor's secretary sketch. Walliams played a female secretary in a university. Students would turn up with a sh.t excuse for not handing in some work and asking for an extension. The secretary would be charming and say she'll 'just ask Tony (I think it was Tony) for you dear'. She'd then phone Tony and say "Billy Lee is here and he needs an extension on his essay for <<insert sh.t excuse here>>." [Pause] "Billy Lee. You know, Billy Lee, the ching-chong chinaman. (might go off on one a bit more with racist crap)" [Pause] "Ha ha. Yes, I'll tell him." [Turn to the student] "He says it's fine, hand it in the week after next." The student was looking extremely offended and angry during the insulting racist/sexist/homophobic/sizeist/ableist bit, but is then relieved and confused and unsure how to respond. Which of them is the bigot? Is it her? The lecturer? Both of them? The comedy is that we all know she's spouting disgusting things and the student has to stand there and take it in order to get their undeserved extension. In the last episode with her, all the students she has insulted turn up to confront her.
Some of the sketchers were just utterly brilliant. Marjorie Dawes in the Fat Fighters sketches and Vicky Pollard were sublime.
So why wasn't it? Why that choice in the context and history of blackface in entertainment don't you consider it a poor choice? Why is it that when POC say they object to blackface you think they're all wrong?The blackness wasn't played for laughs and there wasn't any racist anti-black stereotypes. The skin was just brown. The sketch wouldn't have been any different if the fat suit had been orange (as in Trumpesque fake tan) or pink.
From here.MAtt Lucas wrote:David and I have both spoken publicly in recent years of our regret that we played characters of other races. Once again we want to make it clear that it was wrong and we are very sorry.