'UK Internal Market'

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7057
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

'UK Internal Market'

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:44 am

Split from Getting Brexit Done thread
The Scottish government has threatened to defy proposed UK legislation allowing Westminster unilaterally to set food and environmental standards, setting the stage for the biggest constitutional stand-off between London and Edinburgh since the 2016 Brexit referendum.

Michael Russell, Scotland’s cabinet secretary for constitutional affairs, told the Financial Times that the Scottish National party government was prepared to fight in the courts over legislation that would give London unilateral control over the UK “internal market”.

The bitter dispute over the Conservative UK government’s efforts to ensure it has a free hand in post-Brexit trade negotiations with other countries highlights the far-reaching constitutional implications of leaving the EU.

One person familiar with the proposed UK internal market bill said it would create powers to enable the Westminster government to force Scotland and Wales to accept whatever new standards on food, environment and animal welfare were agreed in future trade agreements.

Food safety, agriculture and many aspects of the environment are policy areas overseen by the devolved administrations in Edinburgh and Cardiff, but the UK government wants to have the final say on issues previously decided in Brussels.

Mr Russell said the Scottish administration accepted the need for “common frameworks” across the UK and had been working with British government officials to try to agree them in contested policy areas.

But he went on to accuse British ministers of “bad faith” in proposing a statutory framework for the UK internal market that would allow them to “impose what they like”.

“We do not accept that this is a legitimate way of operating within devolution,” said Mr Russell. “[If] they pass legislation . . . then we will have no intention of implementing that and they would have to essentially go to court to force its implementation.” 

That could pave the way for a court battle over a UK government attempt to curb the Scottish parliament’s powers in the run-up to Holyrood elections in May 2021 that opinion polls suggest the pro-independence SNP is on course to win by a large margin.

This highlights how the planned UK internal market bill could unleash the most significant tensions between London and Edinburgh since the Brexit referendum, when Scotland voted to stay in the EU.

Edinburgh has warned that it would resist the imposition of a Westminster body outlined in the legislation that could block any Scottish parliament bill that the Westminster government judged would interfere with the internal market.

Welsh as well as Scottish ministers are concerned by proposals in the legislation for a “mutual recognition” regime that could force them to accept controversial products such as chlorinated chicken from the US.

The UK government has pledged to defend food and environmental standards in future trade negotiations, but farming, environmental and animal welfare groups are alarmed at its refusal to enshrine those promises in law.

The UK internal market bill, which is being devised in the government’s business department with support from the international trade department, is raising concerns in Whitehall because of the speed of the process.

A so-called white paper on the bill, which is still being finalised, is expected in the coming weeks, and the government plans to rush through the legislation in the autumn.

Trade experts said it had long been recognised that negotiating trade deals on behalf of the entire UK could create friction between the Westminster government and the devolved administrations, which want to maintain strict EU rules on matters such as genetically modified crops and safe levels of pesticide residues.

The person familiar with the UK internal market bill said that while there would be “warm words about high standards” in the legislation, the business department — backed by Number 10 — was clear that the Westminster government’s hands could not be tied in future trade negotiations.

“The net effect is that whatever — and that means whatever — happens to food standards as a result of signing [free trade agreements], the Scots and Welsh will have to accept those lower standard products on to their market,” added this person.

The UK internal market bill and the UK government’s plans to negotiate trade deals look set to create tensions with the devolved administration in Cardiff.

“Their mindset is that they want to police divergence by the devolved governments but it is more likely to be English divergence that causes difficulty,” said one senior Welsh government figure. 

“Using primary legislation with mutual recognition is a sledgehammer that operates in only one direction.”

The UK government said it was “committed to protecting the integrity of our internal market from any future barriers that could harm trade and destroy people’s livelihoods”.

“We have sought to agree a shared approach to the UK internal market with the devolved administrations. Unfortunately, however, the Scottish government voluntarily withdrew from this process over a year ago.”
https://www.ft.com/content/246da90c-3a7 ... b09619339e

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Getting Brexit done

Post by discovolante » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:54 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:44 am
The Scottish government has threatened to defy proposed UK legislation allowing Westminster unilaterally to set food and environmental standards, setting the stage for the biggest constitutional stand-off between London and Edinburgh since the 2016 Brexit referendum.

Michael Russell, Scotland’s cabinet secretary for constitutional affairs, told the Financial Times that the Scottish National party government was prepared to fight in the courts over legislation that would give London unilateral control over the UK “internal market”.

The bitter dispute over the Conservative UK government’s efforts to ensure it has a free hand in post-Brexit trade negotiations with other countries highlights the far-reaching constitutional implications of leaving the EU.

One person familiar with the proposed UK internal market bill said it would create powers to enable the Westminster government to force Scotland and Wales to accept whatever new standards on food, environment and animal welfare were agreed in future trade agreements.

Food safety, agriculture and many aspects of the environment are policy areas overseen by the devolved administrations in Edinburgh and Cardiff, but the UK government wants to have the final say on issues previously decided in Brussels.

Mr Russell said the Scottish administration accepted the need for “common frameworks” across the UK and had been working with British government officials to try to agree them in contested policy areas.

But he went on to accuse British ministers of “bad faith” in proposing a statutory framework for the UK internal market that would allow them to “impose what they like”.

“We do not accept that this is a legitimate way of operating within devolution,” said Mr Russell. “[If] they pass legislation . . . then we will have no intention of implementing that and they would have to essentially go to court to force its implementation.” 

That could pave the way for a court battle over a UK government attempt to curb the Scottish parliament’s powers in the run-up to Holyrood elections in May 2021 that opinion polls suggest the pro-independence SNP is on course to win by a large margin.

This highlights how the planned UK internal market bill could unleash the most significant tensions between London and Edinburgh since the Brexit referendum, when Scotland voted to stay in the EU.

Edinburgh has warned that it would resist the imposition of a Westminster body outlined in the legislation that could block any Scottish parliament bill that the Westminster government judged would interfere with the internal market.

Welsh as well as Scottish ministers are concerned by proposals in the legislation for a “mutual recognition” regime that could force them to accept controversial products such as chlorinated chicken from the US.

The UK government has pledged to defend food and environmental standards in future trade negotiations, but farming, environmental and animal welfare groups are alarmed at its refusal to enshrine those promises in law.

The UK internal market bill, which is being devised in the government’s business department with support from the international trade department, is raising concerns in Whitehall because of the speed of the process.

A so-called white paper on the bill, which is still being finalised, is expected in the coming weeks, and the government plans to rush through the legislation in the autumn.

Trade experts said it had long been recognised that negotiating trade deals on behalf of the entire UK could create friction between the Westminster government and the devolved administrations, which want to maintain strict EU rules on matters such as genetically modified crops and safe levels of pesticide residues.

The person familiar with the UK internal market bill said that while there would be “warm words about high standards” in the legislation, the business department — backed by Number 10 — was clear that the Westminster government’s hands could not be tied in future trade negotiations.

“The net effect is that whatever — and that means whatever — happens to food standards as a result of signing [free trade agreements], the Scots and Welsh will have to accept those lower standard products on to their market,” added this person.

The UK internal market bill and the UK government’s plans to negotiate trade deals look set to create tensions with the devolved administration in Cardiff.

“Their mindset is that they want to police divergence by the devolved governments but it is more likely to be English divergence that causes difficulty,” said one senior Welsh government figure. 

“Using primary legislation with mutual recognition is a sledgehammer that operates in only one direction.”

The UK government said it was “committed to protecting the integrity of our internal market from any future barriers that could harm trade and destroy people’s livelihoods”.

“We have sought to agree a shared approach to the UK internal market with the devolved administrations. Unfortunately, however, the Scottish government voluntarily withdrew from this process over a year ago.”
https://www.ft.com/content/246da90c-3a7 ... b09619339e
I was just about to post a link to a thread about this as a new topic - although I dunno how many Brexit threads we want, as it covers both EU and devolution/UK constitutional issues what do you reckon to a new thread? You will get the first post of course :P

The thread is here by the way: https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/12 ... 76769?s=20

Edited to correct typo
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by discovolante » Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:49 pm

Basically the Tories are talking about passing legislation to force devolved jurisdictions to accept the same regulatory standards as the rest of the UK on various issues post-Brexit, where previously they would have had total autonomy (post Brexit). Scotland (well the SNP) has said NO CHANCE and that they have done enough by working to agree common frameworks without having such brutally inflexible legislation foisted upon them.

Or, the government in Westminster is working day and night, in service of its country, to ensure a smooth Brexit with all countries of the UK in alignment and harmony, but those pesky Scots are once again refusing to co-operate just to make life more difficult for everyone else in the UK.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
Aitch
Snowbonk
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:53 am
Location: St Aines

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by Aitch » Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:57 pm

discovolante wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:49 pm
Basically the Tories are talking about passing legislation to force devolved jurisdictions to accept the same regulatory standards as the rest of the UK on various issues post-Brexit, where previously they would have had total autonomy (post Brexit). Scotland (well the SNP) has said NO CHANCE and that they have done enough by working to agree common frameworks without having such brutally inflexible legislation foisted upon them.

Or, the government in Westminster is working day and night, in service of its country, to ensure a smooth Brexit with all countries of the UK in alignment and harmony, but those pesky Scots are once again refusing to co-operate just to make life more difficult for everyone else in the UK.
AAMOI, why are you ignoring the Welsh in your reply?
Some people call me strange.
I prefer unconventional.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept eccentric
.

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by discovolante » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:05 pm

Aitch wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:57 pm
discovolante wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:49 pm
Basically the Tories are talking about passing legislation to force devolved jurisdictions to accept the same regulatory standards as the rest of the UK on various issues post-Brexit, where previously they would have had total autonomy (post Brexit). Scotland (well the SNP) has said NO CHANCE and that they have done enough by working to agree common frameworks without having such brutally inflexible legislation foisted upon them.

Or, the government in Westminster is working day and night, in service of its country, to ensure a smooth Brexit with all countries of the UK in alignment and harmony, but those pesky Scots are once again refusing to co-operate just to make life more difficult for everyone else in the UK.
AAMOI, why are you ignoring the Welsh in your reply?
Because this particular story is about a dispute between Scotland and Westminster?

I did dither about saying 'passing legislation to force devolved jurisdictions to accept the same regulatory standards as England' rather than the rest of the UK but I don't actually know what anyone else's position is.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by discovolante » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:03 pm

Gove defends post-Brexit plan for UK internal market
The British government on Wednesday claimed its plan for a post-Brexit internal market in the UK was a “power surge” for the devolved administrations, with responsibility for more than 70 policy areas being transferred from Brussels to Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast.

...

Under the plan, the administrations in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast will be able to set some regulatory standards for producers based in their countries — including food manufacturers — from January.

But through a new system of so-called mutual recognition, outlined in the white paper, the administrations would have to accept products from elsewhere in the UK, even if they were made to lower standards, in areas including food.

A central concern of the Scottish administration is that the British government will strike a post Brexit trade deal with Washington that could involve allowing contentious US food products into the UK, such as chlorinated chicken.

The UK government has sought to emphasise the transfer of powers from Brussels to the devolved administrations that results from Brexit, including over air quality, animal welfare, blood safety, hazardous substances, public procurement and water quality.

But Michael Russell, the Scottish government’s constitution secretary, said London’s stress on powers that the devolved administrations would gain was a “deceitful smokescreen”. “We will not be co-operating in any way with that action and will challenge it in every possible way including in the courts,” he added.

A Welsh administration spokesperson said it supported UK-wide internal market rules but these should be agreed by all four governments — London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast — and any new system must have “independent oversight and dispute resolution”.

“Unfortunately, the UK government has not managed to share the [white] paper with us,” added the spokesperson. “Any attempt to unilaterally impose a system will be deeply damaging.”

The UK government said its mutual recognition system would strengthen and maintain the coherence of the UK internal market, allowing huge volumes of trade to continue to move between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland without “unnecessary burdens”.
(that isn't the full article but most of it)

Knives out...also it seems from this article and Ian Blackford's question in Parliament yesterday that the white paper was leaked to the press before it was sent to the devolved administrations, which is a bit off I think.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

Millennie Al
After Pie
Posts: 1621
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:02 am

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by Millennie Al » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:05 am

discovolante wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:03 pm
Gove defends post-Brexit plan for UK internal market
The British government on Wednesday claimed its plan for a post-Brexit internal market in the UK was a “power surge” for the devolved administrations,
A "power surge"? Like one of those things that destroys electrical equipment?
But through a new system of so-called mutual recognition, outlined in the white paper, the administrations would have to accept products from elsewhere in the UK, even if they were made to lower standards, in areas including food.
It should be called the "single market".

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7057
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:48 am

Just to make the devolved situation even tougher, under treaty Northern Ireland will be following EU goods rules. There cannot be automatic acceptance of goods from London to Belfast. If the reverse happens, then all EU goods become automatically ok across the UK.
https://twitter.com/davidheniguk/status ... 31904?s=21

User avatar
jimbob
Light of Blast
Posts: 5276
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by jimbob » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:28 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:48 am
Just to make the devolved situation even tougher, under treaty Northern Ireland will be following EU goods rules. There cannot be automatic acceptance of goods from London to Belfast. If the reverse happens, then all EU goods become automatically ok across the UK.
https://twitter.com/davidheniguk/status ... 31904?s=21
Which was obvious from day 1
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: 'UK Internal Market'

Post by discovolante » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:00 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:48 am
Just to make the devolved situation even tougher, under treaty Northern Ireland will be following EU goods rules. There cannot be automatic acceptance of goods from London to Belfast. If the reverse happens, then all EU goods become automatically ok across the UK.
https://twitter.com/davidheniguk/status ... 31904?s=21
Just thought I'd have a quick look at what the papers in NI are saying(because otherwise, I'm clueless):

Belfast Telegraph - NI to have more powers than Scotland and Wales in Brexit plan

not spotted anything in Irish News. Not seen anything in the Irish Times either but I guess having a new government is bigger news at the moment?

In Scotland it looks like Joanna Cherry is still itching for a constitutional argument over indyref2: https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/statu ... 8754442241
If you want to understand the harsh legal reality of the #powergrab on devolution listen back to @AileenMcHarg on #bbcgms after eight. The brutal fact is this will be done by primary legislation & when @ScotParl withholds consent that will be ignored.

As Aileen says because the Westminster parliament is supreme once it passes legislation there will be no real opportunity for legal action. I suspect she is right. The remedy is political not legal & it lies in #independence.

As to how we obtain a second #indyref that is constitutional & therefore a result thats recognised internationally if a section 30 order continues to be withheld here I believe legal action might assist. And here like others I await developments
I'll defer to Senor von Late on the inner workings of Scottish politics but I guess this could lead to some more tensions in the SNP as well,fun and games all round then.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

Post Reply