Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

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jimbob
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Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by jimbob » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:25 pm

https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status ... 1307218948


The Sparrow Project
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·
23h

Militarized Federal Agents from a patchwork of outside agencies have begun policing Portland (in rented minivans vans) without the explicit approval of the mayor, the state, or local municipalities. This is what that looks like in practice:
I'm not sure how easy it is to verify but it fits with this story:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ent-302551
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Herainestold » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:26 pm

Fascism, pure and simple.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:38 pm

jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:25 pm
https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status ... 1307218948


The Sparrow Project
@sparrowmedia
·
23h

Militarized Federal Agents from a patchwork of outside agencies have begun policing Portland (in rented minivans vans) without the explicit approval of the mayor, the state, or local municipalities. This is what that looks like in practice:
I'm not sure how easy it is to verify but it fits with this story:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ent-302551
I’m not sure that deploying federal agents without approval by the governor etc is unconstitutional. Eisenhower sent in the regular army to Arkansas to enforce desegregation (in direct opposition to what the governor wanted).

But there are reports of the federal agents in Portland having picked people off the streets without explaining why. Which is bad.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by jimbob » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:43 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:25 pm
https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status ... 1307218948


The Sparrow Project
@sparrowmedia
·
23h

Militarized Federal Agents from a patchwork of outside agencies have begun policing Portland (in rented minivans vans) without the explicit approval of the mayor, the state, or local municipalities. This is what that looks like in practice:
I'm not sure how easy it is to verify but it fits with this story:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ent-302551
I’m not sure that deploying federal agents without approval by the governor etc is unconstitutional. Eisenhower sent in the regular army to Arkansas to enforce desegregation (in direct opposition to what the governor wanted).

But there are reports of the federal agents in Portland having picked people off the streets without explaining why. Which is bad.
I was mostly thinking about the 5th Amendment
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation


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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by dyqik » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:09 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:25 pm
https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status ... 1307218948


The Sparrow Project
@sparrowmedia
·
23h

Militarized Federal Agents from a patchwork of outside agencies have begun policing Portland (in rented minivans vans) without the explicit approval of the mayor, the state, or local municipalities. This is what that looks like in practice:
I'm not sure how easy it is to verify but it fits with this story:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ent-302551
I’m not sure that deploying federal agents without approval by the governor etc is unconstitutional. Eisenhower sent in the regular army to Arkansas to enforce desegregation (in direct opposition to what the governor wanted).
Federal agents have no authority to arrest people for state crimes apart from that given to them by agreement with the state. Oregon's agreement does not cover policing protests. As such, the Federal agents here don't have any authority to make these arrests, even if they carry them out properly, which they aren't.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:14 pm

The lack of any form of identification is extremely dodgy too, and not just because it means right-wing paramilitaries could easily infiltrate their ranks. It also makes it impossible for oversight/complaints. Pretty decent evidence of premeditation should any abuses be committed.
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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by jimbob » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:29 pm

Scary Twitter thread by a journalist on this:

https://twitter.com/JesseDamiani/status ... 5771412480

Jesse Damiani
@JesseDamiani
Need more context for what's going on in Portland right now? Here's what we know so far.

THREAD
6:09 PM · Jul 17, 2020·Twitter Web App
24.9K
Retweets and comments
27.5K
Likes
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:40 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:09 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:38 pm
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:25 pm
https://twitter.com/sparrowmedia/status ... 1307218948

I'm not sure how easy it is to verify but it fits with this story:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ent-302551
I’m not sure that deploying federal agents without approval by the governor etc is unconstitutional. Eisenhower sent in the regular army to Arkansas to enforce desegregation (in direct opposition to what the governor wanted).
Federal agents have no authority to arrest people for state crimes apart from that given to them by agreement with the state. Oregon's agreement does not cover policing protests. As such, the Federal agents here don't have any authority to make these arrests, even if they carry them out properly, which they aren't.
Good point. Though it seems like they aren’t actually arresting people. Just unlawfully detaining then instead.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by dyqik » Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:23 pm

Anyway, the Oregon State government and the ACLU are suing DHS to stop it

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:50 pm

jimbob wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:29 pm
Scary Twitter thread by a journalist on this:

https://twitter.com/JesseDamiani/status ... 5771412480

Jesse Damiani
@JesseDamiani
Need more context for what's going on in Portland right now? Here's what we know so far.

THREAD
6:09 PM · Jul 17, 2020·Twitter Web App
24.9K
Retweets and comments
27.5K
Likes
Obviously there's no justification for any of it, but it seems particularly weird that their public explanation for sending anonymous armed men to attack and abduct civilians is largely graffiti. Like, at least make up something more interesting before your fascistic power grab, you lazy sods. It's really as embarrassing as it is terrifying that a bunch of idle, stupid tw.ts are continuously able to run rings around all the supposedly intelligent and principled people in government.
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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by jimbob » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:36 pm

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1284337917981274115
Josh Marshall
@joshtpm
Deputy Secretary of DHS Ken Cuccinelli tells NPR not only are they not stopping the Portland tactics they're going to take them nationwide. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/dh ... s-national
via
@TPM
DHS Under Boss: We're Taking This National
DHS Under Boss: We're Taking This National
talkingpointsmemo.com
5:03 AM · Jul 18, 2020·Twitter Web App
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by FlammableFlower » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:33 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:50 pm
jimbob wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:29 pm
Scary Twitter thread by a journalist on this:

https://twitter.com/JesseDamiani/status ... 5771412480

Jesse Damiani
@JesseDamiani
Need more context for what's going on in Portland right now? Here's what we know so far.

THREAD
6:09 PM · Jul 17, 2020·Twitter Web App
24.9K
Retweets and comments
27.5K
Likes
Obviously there's no justification for any of it, but it seems particularly weird that their public explanation for sending anonymous armed men to attack and abduct civilians is largely graffiti. Like, at least make up something more interesting before your fascistic power grab, you lazy sods. It's really as embarrassing as it is terrifying that a bunch of idle, stupid tw.ts are continuously able to run rings around all the supposedly intelligent and principled people in government.
Also, some of them are Customs and Border Protection - are they trying to secure the border with the State of Washington?

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Martin Y » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:09 pm

The equivalent thread over on International Skeptics is raising some interesting points about what these federal officers can and can't do. The bottom line appears to be that, lacking Oregon's approval, they can still arrest people if there's probable cause to believe they committed a federal offence, such as for example vandalising federal property or buildings. There doesn't yet appear to be enough information about what has actually happened to know if this is the case.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by dyqik » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:47 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:33 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:50 pm
jimbob wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:29 pm
Scary Twitter thread by a journalist on this:

https://twitter.com/JesseDamiani/status ... 5771412480

Obviously there's no justification for any of it, but it seems particularly weird that their public explanation for sending anonymous armed men to attack and abduct civilians is largely graffiti. Like, at least make up something more interesting before your fascistic power grab, you lazy sods. It's really as embarrassing as it is terrifying that a bunch of idle, stupid tw.ts are continuously able to run rings around all the supposedly intelligent and principled people in government.
Also, some of them are Customs and Border Protection - are they trying to secure the border with the State of Washington?
CBP can act to protect borders anywhere within 100 miles of a port of entry to the US. This includes international airports, shipping ports, etc.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:58 am

I remember having our car stopped and having to show passports and visas in the New Mexico desert, about 3 hours' drive from the border.

I don't think there's any suggestion that immigration issues are at stake here, though. Isn't it just that they've seconded other federal employees to suppress the protests?
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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by bolo » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:40 am

As BoaF says, there's no suggestion of a connection to immigration or customs enforcement. According to CBP, their officers are acting in support of the Federal Protective Service, which is responsible for stuff like protecting federal buildings:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/speeches-a ... and-oregon
The statutory authority cited in the CBP statement is here:
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req ... umpTo=true

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Boustrophedon » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:19 am

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:26 pm
Fascism, pure and simple.
I have viewed America as a fascist state for a long time now.
...zoologically improbable and/or terrifying to small children.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by FlammableFlower » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:55 am

I was being flippant... should have added an indicator to show that I guess.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:32 am

Oregon sues federal government over unlawful detentions of its citizens

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53460495
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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Herainestold » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:52 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:19 am
Herainestold wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:26 pm
Fascism, pure and simple.
I have viewed America as a fascist state for a long time now.
Fascist and racist.

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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:07 pm

Trump planning to roll the black-bagging out to other cities, such as New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53481383
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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Aitch » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:44 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:07 pm
Trump planning to roll the black-bagging out to other cities, such as New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53481383
Hmmm, how long before he declares martial law, imposes curfews, has the National Guard patrolling the streets, suspends Congress/Elections and so on?

Or tries to, I suspect there would soon be an 'unfortunate accident' on the Whitehouse stairs...
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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:52 pm

Aitch wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:44 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:07 pm
Trump planning to roll the black-bagging out to other cities, such as New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53481383
Hmmm, how long before he declares martial law, imposes curfews, has the National Guard patrolling the streets, suspends Congress/Elections and so on?

Or tries to, I suspect there would soon be an 'unfortunate accident' on the Whitehouse stairs...
He's already sent the National Guard into Washington DC, and dozens of cities have had curfews (not all - if any? - ordered by Trump himself, it has to be said).

Given that the police are highly militarized and seem to show more loyalty to Trump than to the rule of law, martial law is already partly established. The actual military don't seem to fond of President Bonespurs, though, so I guess they could just drone strike him on a golf course.

My understanding is that, even if he suspends elections, there's no mechanism that would constitutionally allow the continuation of his presidency. But then, people have been saying that the US constitution prevents this or that for the last four years, and they've often been wrong about how things work in practice. If a majority of Republicans choose to support a Trump coup rather than lose an election I'm really not sure where the US would end up.
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Re: Unconstitutional actions by Federal law enforcement in Portland?

Post by JQH » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:53 pm

Does the Electoral College have to be elected? In the event of a coup could the coup leader not just stuff the EC with loyalists to fulfil the constitutional requirement?
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