Huge explosion in Beirut
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
The bellingcat article has been updated and includes a slide across comparison of before and after the blast.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/20 ... in-beirut/
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/20 ... in-beirut/
where once I used to scintillate
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- Dorkwood
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
From there:
this shockwave appears to have reached Cyprus
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Also from there, the video from someone on the roof of the building at the north end of the grain silo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJIA56 ... e=emb_logo
You can see that they're filming the initial fire, seemingly involving fireworks, happening in the north end of the same warehouse building which is eventually the source of the main detonation, as the crater is centred on what used to be its south end. There's a dramatic explosion at the end of that video, but it's certainly not the main event as they're only a few tens of metres away and the building they're standing on was entirely destroyed. So this seems to be an earlier explosion in the fireworks store and they must have got the hell out after that for the phone footage to have survived the final blast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJIA56 ... e=emb_logo
You can see that they're filming the initial fire, seemingly involving fireworks, happening in the north end of the same warehouse building which is eventually the source of the main detonation, as the crater is centred on what used to be its south end. There's a dramatic explosion at the end of that video, but it's certainly not the main event as they're only a few tens of metres away and the building they're standing on was entirely destroyed. So this seems to be an earlier explosion in the fireworks store and they must have got the hell out after that for the phone footage to have survived the final blast.
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Who the f.ck stores fireworks in the same warehouse as a shipload of ammonium nitrate? If it wasn’t the cause of such devastation that would almost be comical.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
That's astoundingly stupid.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Those folks should have some basic idea of how to store chemicals in that case.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation
- Boustrophedon
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
As recorded elsewhere on this forum, I got involved in a stupid online argument about ammonium nitrate and its ability to detonate in the pure state. It seems to be a common belief that since ammonium nitrate is an "oxidiser" it must have a fuel present to explode and no pointing at counter examples will convince them otherwise. Given the casual use and storage of ammonium nitrate in farming I have no doubt that this belief persists in health and safety officers working in storage facilities the world over.
I read somewhere* that the ease with which AM can be detonated is greatly improved by the inclusion of bubbles in the prills and that AM used in slurry explosives and ANFO is deliberately made to include bubbles, whereas fertiliser grade is made without.
*ETA. See Wiki on ANFO.
I read somewhere* that the ease with which AM can be detonated is greatly improved by the inclusion of bubbles in the prills and that AM used in slurry explosives and ANFO is deliberately made to include bubbles, whereas fertiliser grade is made without.
*ETA. See Wiki on ANFO.
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
People who don't have to worry about Health and Safety red tape.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.
Fintan O'Toole
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:39 pmAs recorded elsewhere on this forum, I got involved in a stupid online argument about ammonium nitrate and its ability to detonate in the pure state. It seems to be a common belief that since ammonium nitrate is an "oxidiser" it must have a fuel present to explode and no pointing at counter examples will convince them otherwise. Given the casual use and storage of ammonium nitrate in farming I have no doubt that this belief persists in health and safety officers working in storage facilities the world over.
I read somewhere* that the ease with which AM can be detonated is greatly improved by the inclusion of bubbles in the prills and that AM used in slurry explosives and ANFO is deliberately made to include bubbles, whereas fertiliser grade is made without.
*ETA. See Wiki on ANFO.
Two things appear to have contributed to the Beirut explosion. Firstly, inadequate storage for six years may have allowed moisture to change the pirils into large blocks. Secondly, there was a serious fire in the warehouse involving what appear to be fireworks.
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Trump managed to stick his oar in declaring it was a bomb... then he claimed various generals told him it probably was... then he claimed it was lots of explosive devices. Can someone find a basement for him to sit in out of the way?
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Beyond the media circus, does anyone with any influence actually pay attention to whatever crap Trump comes up with any more? For example, Macron is visiting Beirut today - I can't imagine he's taking Trump's comments particularly seriously.FlammableFlower wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:43 amTrump managed to stick his oar in declaring it was a bomb... then he claimed various generals told him it probably was... then he claimed it was lots of explosive devices. Can someone find a basement for him to sit in out of the way?
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
I was just wondering about the death toll, surely it must be in the thousands ?
Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Not necessarily with it being in the docks and half the blast radius being out to sea, but yes I expect it to go up significantly. Also I’d expect there to be a lot of “missing” where there simply isn’t anything left of the victims.
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Is it? ANFO requires a detonator and a primer of dynamite or similar.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am
Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Good article on the Beirut explosion here.
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
A detonator is only required if someone wants to have control over the time of the explosion. Which would be the case with a bomb or industrial use. Ammonium nitrate will also explode if its heated to a high temperature. So there have been ammonium nitrate explosions when it was burnt by an intense fire. For example, in Tianjin "An investigation found that stocks of flammable nitrocellulose - a chemical used in nail polish - had caught fire and spread to illegal stores of the fertiliser ammonium nitrate. The blasts that were triggered ripped through an industrial port area in the city, destroying buildings, shipping containers and thousands of new cars."Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:52 amIs it? ANFO requires a detonator and a primer of dynamite or similar.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am
Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37927158
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
Looks like some fireworks had been stored in the same warehouse for a decade.Martin Y wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:57 pmAlso from there, the video from someone on the roof of the building at the north end of the grain silo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJIA56 ... e=emb_logo
You can see that they're filming the initial fire, seemingly involving fireworks, happening in the north end of the same warehouse building which is eventually the source of the main detonation, as the crater is centred on what used to be its south end. There's a dramatic explosion at the end of that video, but it's certainly not the main event as they're only a few tens of metres away and the building they're standing on was entirely destroyed. So this seems to be an earlier explosion in the fireworks store and they must have got the hell out after that for the phone footage to have survived the final blast.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -in-hangar
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
See here page 2.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:23 pmA detonator is only required if someone wants to have control over the time of the explosion. Which would be the case with a bomb or industrial use. Ammonium nitrate will also explode if its heated to a high temperature. So there have been ammonium nitrate explosions when it was burnt by an intense fire. For example, in Tianjin "An investigation found that stocks of flammable nitrocellulose - a chemical used in nail polish - had caught fire and spread to illegal stores of the fertiliser ammonium nitrate. The blasts that were triggered ripped through an industrial port area in the city, destroying buildings, shipping containers and thousands of new cars."Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:52 amIs it? ANFO requires a detonator and a primer of dynamite or similar.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am
Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37927158
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... QUIVALENCY
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Re: Huge explosion in Beirut
The detonator is not the point, I should have said not just a detonator... The point was the pound or two of secondary explosive, like Semtex needed to reliably initiate a detonation in cold ANFO, which doesn't seem much less than say the dynamite being used to break AM up in Oppau. However I don't have access to the paper you link to. But the abstract doesn't seem to address that point.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:23 pmA detonator is only required if someone wants to have control over the time of the explosion. Which would be the case with a bomb or industrial use. Ammonium nitrate will also explode if its heated to a high temperature. So there have been ammonium nitrate explosions when it was burnt by an intense fire. For example, in Tianjin "An investigation found that stocks of flammable nitrocellulose - a chemical used in nail polish - had caught fire and spread to illegal stores of the fertiliser ammonium nitrate. The blasts that were triggered ripped through an industrial port area in the city, destroying buildings, shipping containers and thousands of new cars."Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:52 amIs it? ANFO requires a detonator and a primer of dynamite or similar.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:25 am
Ammonium nitrate is much more difficult to detonate without being mixed with fuel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37927158
Yes I agree that bar the Oppau explosion, in most of the accidents, there has been the possible addition of a fuel and lots of heat.
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