Scrutable

I wonder what this "week in Tory" is going to be like. Shambolic even by their standards and it's only Monday.

bob sterman wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:52 pm

So now what happens?

At my university we've already accepted (and rejected) a load of students.

If the rejected students now have higher grades than originally though - we could call them and offer them a place.

But what about the ones we've accepted? E.g. perhaps we were their insurance? If they now have higher grades than they initially thought will their first choice institution be calling them up and offering them a place?

It might need the Government to step in and decree that all acceptances or rejections made since Thursday do not stand (perhaps even by an emergency court injunction?), and that the whole system is reset to how it stood before the results came out. I'm not sure individual institutions can fix this mess.

Presumably the Government have a plan for this. Surely. No?

Some universities appear to be saying "Yes, your grades now meet our offer, but you can't have a place because we've already given them all out".

Which obviously cannot stand.

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

From ISF:

The government U turn was originally a B turn.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

Some universities appear to be saying "Yes, your grades now meet our offer, but you can't have a place because we've already given them all out".

Which obviously cannot stand.

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

This is exactly why I think the solution may be a complete reset, nullifying all the rejections and acceptances so far and going back to how it stood prior to Thursday.

AMS wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:38 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

Some universities appear to be saying "Yes, your grades now meet our offer, but you can't have a place because we've already given them all out".

Which obviously cannot stand.

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

This is exactly why I think the solution may be a complete reset, nullifying all the rejections and acceptances so far and going back to how it stood prior to Thursday.

God if that happens I really am going to be on the gin for breakfast...

Mind, it might almost be funny if one of the unis that goes bust because of all this happens to be the one in Boris Johnson's constituency

warumich wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:55 pm

AMS wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:38 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

Some universities appear to be saying "Yes, your grades now meet our offer, but you can't have a place because we've already given them all out".

Which obviously cannot stand.

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

This is exactly why I think the solution may be a complete reset, nullifying all the rejections and acceptances so far and going back to how it stood prior to Thursday.

God if that happens I really am going to be on the gin for breakfast...

Mind, it might almost be funny if one of the unis that goes bust because of all this happens to be the one in Boris Johnson's constituency

Am I right in thinking it's probably bit fraught in uni admissions teams right now?

AMS wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:38 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

Some universities appear to be saying "Yes, your grades now meet our offer, but you can't have a place because we've already given them all out".

Which obviously cannot stand.

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

This is exactly why I think the solution may be a complete reset, nullifying all the rejections and acceptances so far and going back to how it stood prior to Thursday.

As far as I know an accepted offer is a contract between the university and the student. It won’t be easy to void all the hundreds of thousands of contracts already agreed. Some people are going to lose out.

AMS wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:01 pm

Am I right in thinking it's probably bit fraught in uni admissions teams right now?

A little bit, yes...

I have to say though, the team at the central admissions office have been brilliant so far and kept their sense of humour.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:08 pm

Mods: can the title be updated? To messier. Or even messiest.

Messier? The astronomy thread is that way ===>

bolo wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:39 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:08 pm

Mods: can the title be updated? To messier. Or even messiest.

Messier? The astronomy thread is that way ===>

And apparently Messi isn't too happy right now either

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:08 pm

AMS wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:38 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

Some universities appear to be saying "Yes, your grades now meet our offer, but you can't have a place because we've already given them all out".

Which obviously cannot stand.

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

This is exactly why I think the solution may be a complete reset, nullifying all the rejections and acceptances so far and going back to how it stood prior to Thursday.

As far as I know an accepted offer is a contract between the university and the student. It won’t be easy to void all the hundreds of thousands of contracts already agreed. Some people are going to lose out.

That's certainly what someone said on PM this evening.

jimbob wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:20 pm

I wonder what this "week in Tory" is going to be like. Shambolic even by their standards and it's only Monday.

What they need is someone who noticed what happened in Scotland two weeks ago, and suggested it might happen in England.

Someone good at predicting. A sort of super-predictor.......

murmur wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:48 pm

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:08 pm

As far as I know an accepted offer is a contract between the university and the student. It won’t be easy to void all the hundreds of thousands of contracts already agreed. Some people are going to lose out.

That's certainly what someone said on PM this evening.

It might be a voidable contract as no valuable consideration has been exchanged*

*dredged up from my law modules when I was on the shameful road to becoming a management accountant

Lifting the cap is entirely pointless. One of the reasons it's there is the pandemic, which government seems tip have forgotten about in trying to flail their way out of this fiasco.

In a normal year we could in theory take up to 150 in our dept (we discovered this when admissions got more centralised and those tasked with managing it for Chemistry got a bit too keen, having for years bimbled along at about 100-110). This year precisely because of the pandemic, we're limited to 120, because that's the max capacity we can deal with socially distanced in the lab (with a lot of juggling).

We can't take any more, even if we wanted to.

Having pointed out my institution's previously stated policy, I wonder if it will change in light of the government essentially kicking the table over.

Again... 4 months...

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

Is the government more afraid of the rage of the small number of wealthy, well-connected core supporters who use private schools, or the rage of the huge number of middle-class supporters who use state schools?

Sciolus wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:42 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

Is the government more afraid of the rage of the small number of wealthy, well-connected core supporters who use private schools, or the rage of the huge number of middle-class supporters who use state schools?

Easy, it'll all be someone else's fault. Ofqual most obviously, but with a bit of imagination maybe even the teachers.

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:08 pm

Mods: can the title be updated? To messier. Or even messiest.

Wouldn't 'Messier' confuse the astronomers on the board?

Boris Johnson presents: ACDC!

Sciolus wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:13 pm

Boris Johnson presents: ACDC!

Stolen

warumich wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:36 pm

Sciolus wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:42 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:29 pm

The outcome has been two stage results: private schools get their results without downgrades, take their uni places. A few days later, comps and colleges (especially in the north) get their results without downgrades, and are second in the queue for uni places (having gone through a few days of being told worse results to push them to second choice unis or clearing).

Is the government more afraid of the rage of the small number of wealthy, well-connected core supporters who use private schools, or the rage of the huge number of middle-class supporters who use state schools?

Easy, it'll all be someone else's fault. Ofqual most obviously, but with a bit of imagination maybe even the teachers.

You, sir, are a super predictor...

Lol!

jimbob wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:24 pm

Stolen

Yes, it was.

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:08 pm

As far as I know an accepted offer is a contract between the university and the student. It won’t be easy to void all the hundreds of thousands of contracts already agreed. Some people are going to lose out.

Albeit an asymmetric contract. Won't be easy for universities to renege on places they have promised to students. However, universities cannot compel students to actually turn up.

The thinking on my professional admissions forum is that we scrap everything and start again with the CAG Grades. Important meetings taking place tomorrow morning.

Yeah, I don't know if that's legal either.

(I've been reading and sending so many e-mails on this that I automatically signed this post with my real name!).