Re: Back to school
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:09 pm
Just in time for the half-term hols we've had a message that there's been a positive case in each of Year 7 and Year 11 of the children's school. Cases were unrelated too.
Yeah, I mean something will definitely have changed.bolo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:02 pmBoloJr's school has just announced that it will switch from all-online to 2 in-person days per week, starting at the end of January, if nothing changes between now and then.
If nothing changes between now and the end of January? It's good to have a plan, I guess, but 3 months is an eternity in Covid time.
Well, yes, the virus mainly spreads by close social contact, and schools are a part of that, but I don't think they're "ignoring" the role of schools by not closing them and it's wrong to say so.It is clear from ONS data that schools are an engine for virus transmission. It would be self-defeating for the Government to impose a national lockdown, whilst ignoring the role of schools as a major contributor to the spread of the virus.
But the government has already given schools a legal duty to be able to switch immediately to online learning in case of closures or if students are isolating. I think 27th of October was the date by which plans needed to be in place by. So they aren't saying what should happen in the event of a school closure because that is already decided, legally mandated and schools are ready.badger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:38 amSo here we are entering Lockdown2 and schools are to stay open. I assume the Cost/Benefit is such that we can still get R below 1 in next 4 weeks with them open, and this might keep some semblance of life going for society, economy and individuals (inc mental health).
It's an interesting bet and many aren't happy with it (keeping schools open, specifically) but there's a lack of decent debate, in part caused by the Govts refusal to lay out much of a case by way of explanation.
The NEU, the largest teaching union, has called for schools to be included in the lockdown too.
https://neu.org.uk/press-releases/close ... -lockdown
I have some sympathy for them, but their argument and proposal seems misguided. Union boss says:
Well, yes, the virus mainly spreads by close social contact, and schools are a part of that, but I don't think they're "ignoring" the role of schools by not closing them and it's wrong to say so.It is clear from ONS data that schools are an engine for virus transmission. It would be self-defeating for the Government to impose a national lockdown, whilst ignoring the role of schools as a major contributor to the spread of the virus.
But what I find most revealing is that their demand doesn't include anything regarding teaching children during their proposed school lockdown, only after, and nothing about current and possible future measures to reduce transmission in schools (eg more effective testing, masks in primaries a la France). I can get with rotas and blended learning when they go back, as proposed, but once again avoiding the issue of trying to keep some kind of education going during a full lockdown is avoided, and that gives off the impression, amplified by anti-Union press and commentators, that children are actually quite low down in their list of priorities (I know their a teacher's union and not a student's union, but still).
It seems to me that if they really wanted to give the Govt a kicking, they could and should have been much more vocal about the lack of IT and broadband for remote learning from the off, and should be using this as an opportunity to twist the knife, instead of waffle and misrepresenting stats. Trying to stop teachers from having to Work From Home when much of the rest of the country is seems misguided and more likely to alienate them from any sympathy vote (and they can work from near empty schools, anyway).
Ah yes, fair enough re legal mandate but wasn't sure if that applied in full lockdown or whether it was for instances of bubble and individual school closures during normal/Tiered times. There would have to be new legislation anyway? More importantly their press release (and campaigning) reads like it doesn't exist, and they do specifically mention provision for children of key workers, so they are discussing what should happen to some kids during lockdown but not others. It's still poor messaging from them, I think.mediocrity511 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:29 amBut the government has already given schools a legal duty to be able to switch immediately to online learning in case of closures or if students are isolating. I think 27th of October was the date by which plans needed to be in place by. So they aren't saying what should happen in the event of a school closure because that is already decided, legally mandated and schools are ready.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3642261badger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:50 amAh yes, fair enough re legal mandate but wasn't sure if that applied in full lockdown or whether it was for instances of bubble and individual school closures during normal/Tiered times. There would have to be new legislation anyway? More importantly their press release (and campaigning) reads like it doesn't exist, and they do specifically mention provision for children of key workers, so they are discussing what should happen to some kids during lockdown but not others. It's still poor messaging from them, I think.mediocrity511 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:29 amBut the government has already given schools a legal duty to be able to switch immediately to online learning in case of closures or if students are isolating. I think 27th of October was the date by which plans needed to be in place by. So they aren't saying what should happen in the event of a school closure because that is already decided, legally mandated and schools are ready.
Indeed they are, and to spend (some of) the time planning for rota/blended learning when "schools return" (but they're not going away). It's poor language and looks like they're avoiding reference to legislation they campaigned against and the online schooling they advised members to refrain from since March. Their social media campaign/petition/email-your-MP makes no reference either and simply refers to Govt having better IT and broadband for students when "schools return" (but why not now?)mediocrity511 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:32 pmhttps://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3642261badger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:50 amAh yes, fair enough re legal mandate but wasn't sure if that applied in full lockdown or whether it was for instances of bubble and individual school closures during normal/Tiered times. There would have to be new legislation anyway? More importantly their press release (and campaigning) reads like it doesn't exist, and they do specifically mention provision for children of key workers, so they are discussing what should happen to some kids during lockdown but not others. It's still poor messaging from them, I think.mediocrity511 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:29 am
But the government has already given schools a legal duty to be able to switch immediately to online learning in case of closures or if students are isolating. I think 27th of October was the date by which plans needed to be in place by. So they aren't saying what should happen in the event of a school closure because that is already decided, legally mandated and schools are ready.
The notice seems pretty wide ranging and would include any reason relating to coronavirus for children not attending. So they are calling for an order for schools to be closed, with exemptions for key worker and vulnerable children and the education for all other children is already decided under the regulations already in place.
I hadn't realised how angry this has made me - the fact that my daughter's been exposed for something that we know was risky, and with lots of disruption to her A-levels
What's the solution? Isn't this a choice between 100% online school vs Usual school with occasional 2 weeks online?
It's the fact that the government has accepted that we need a lockdown, but she was exposed to the infection during the lockdown period, because schools are still open. And that loads of pupils are going to be exposed to COVID and their peers isolating - causing an unfair disruption to their education.badger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:11 pmWhat's the solution? Isn't this a choice between 100% online school vs Usual school with occasional 2 weeks online?
Or is this more a case of the online provision being poor?
Fair enough.jimbob wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:43 pmIt's the fact that the government has accepted that we need a lockdown, but she was exposed to the infection during the lockdown period, because schools are still open. And that loads of pupils are going to be exposed to COVID and their peers isolating - causing an unfair disruption to their education.
By the time kids are at secondary school - -or certainly by Y9, they should be able to last a day at home without a parent, so schools for that age up should be online, and probably younger too (although I'm open to persuasion either way for that)
Educationally, one would guess that lessons planned for online delivery would be of higher quality than ones that have to be instantly adapted. The in and out nature is very disruptive.badger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:47 pmFair enough.jimbob wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:43 pmIt's the fact that the government has accepted that we need a lockdown, but she was exposed to the infection during the lockdown period, because schools are still open. And that loads of pupils are going to be exposed to COVID and their peers isolating - causing an unfair disruption to their education.
By the time kids are at secondary school - -or certainly by Y9, they should be able to last a day at home without a parent, so schools for that age up should be online, and probably younger too (although I'm open to persuasion either way for that)
What's the difference between the learning she is doing now (presumably at home, online), and what she would be doing if schools had been closed in lockdown (ditto), and also with if she was in school?
The disruption comes whatever the provision, doesn't it?
Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
Are they instantly adapted? Plans had to be in place for this eventuality, right?mediocrity511 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:11 pmEducationally, one would guess that lessons planned for online delivery would be of higher quality than ones that have to be instantly adapted. The in and out nature is very disruptive.badger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:47 pmFair enough.jimbob wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:43 pm
It's the fact that the government has accepted that we need a lockdown, but she was exposed to the infection during the lockdown period, because schools are still open. And that loads of pupils are going to be exposed to COVID and their peers isolating - causing an unfair disruption to their education.
By the time kids are at secondary school - -or certainly by Y9, they should be able to last a day at home without a parent, so schools for that age up should be online, and probably younger too (although I'm open to persuasion either way for that)
What's the difference between the learning she is doing now (presumably at home, online), and what she would be doing if schools had been closed in lockdown (ditto), and also with if she was in school?
The disruption comes whatever the provision, doesn't it?
Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
Also from a wellbeing perspective, she's now confined to the house. Had she been doing online learning without the self isolating, she'd be able to get out for exercise, fresh air and to meet one friend at a time.
Key worker childcare isn't really relevant at secondary school though, barring special needs children.badger wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:35 pmAre they instantly adapted? Plans had to be in place for this eventuality, right?mediocrity511 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:11 pmEducationally, one would guess that lessons planned for online delivery would be of higher quality than ones that have to be instantly adapted. The in and out nature is very disruptive.badger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:47 pm
Fair enough.
What's the difference between the learning she is doing now (presumably at home, online), and what she would be doing if schools had been closed in lockdown (ditto), and also with if she was in school?
The disruption comes whatever the provision, doesn't it?
Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
Also from a wellbeing perspective, she's now confined to the house. Had she been doing online learning without the self isolating, she'd be able to get out for exercise, fresh air and to meet one friend at a time.
And having to isolate for two weeks is weighed against a more normal life for the rest of the time. Am trying to understand how disruptive it is, when compared to the counter. Am not sure how many teenagers would keep to seeing one friend at time, outside or inside their house, especially if the house is parent-free for most of the day... and that's not a slight on teenagers, I just think it might be an unreasonable temptation for them to contend with, and potentially more disruptive in the long run.
Also, and this is from a very small sample, but my understanding is that it's harder for schools to run completely online, and deliver the same quantity and quality of teaching, partly because a disproportionate amount of staff are taken up with running the on site school for key worker's kids.
The primary in the next catchment to ours has just shut down completely for a week. The word on the grapevine at pick up today was that they have seven staff in self-isolation.bagpuss wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:01 pmWell, 2 years of the secondary school and 2 years of the infant school on the same site as the bagkitten's junior school are currently off due to positive tests in the year bubbles. Considering we're still in a relatively low risk area (3,679 estimated cases per million according to ZOE app), this is suddenly feeling a bit worryingly close.
Still no cases in the bagkitten's school but it's got to be just a matter of time, and probably not very much time, at this rate.
I am very interested to see the DfE response to this, given their legal threats to schools that have wanted to do the same. Is this a case of the council going it alone? Or are the government changing tack? Interesting that it's all schools too ad not just secondary.