Julian Assange

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dyqik
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm

plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Winkling those apache gunship files out was a public good. I don’t understand the “but someone else could have done it instead” argument.
There are hundreds of US and European journalists with secure dropboxes (electronic or otherwise) for tip-offs and leaks. Of course someone else could have done it.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm

plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:02 pm
dawkins is different. for starters, he’s defending his scientific discipline against religious fundamentalism.
Nah, he's a tw.t to other evolutionary biologists too.

But it's interesting that you'd draw that distinction - I think everybody has some areas where they think "being a massive bellend" can be justified, and others where it can't, and a lot of people don't seem that impressed by what Wikileaks has done.

I do wonder what kind of reception a Russian or Chinese equivalent would get - someone who helped whistleblowers and exposed atrocities, but also endangered allies, and was a narcissistic a..eh.le with sexual assault allegations against them, facing an extradition request to the superpower they'd pissed off.
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:23 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm
plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Winkling those apache gunship files out was a public good. I don’t understand the “but someone else could have done it instead” argument.
There are hundreds of US and European journalists with secure dropboxes (electronic or otherwise) for tip-offs and leaks. Of course someone else could have done it.
I think it's quite clear that Wikileaks as an organisation fulfilled a role quite distinct from traditional journalism, and was somewhat sui generis. There's probably a reason that many whistleblowers/leakers seemingly preferred Wikileaks to other journalists (and of course some didn't, like Snowden).
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:28 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:23 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm
plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Winkling those apache gunship files out was a public good. I don’t understand the “but someone else could have done it instead” argument.
There are hundreds of US and European journalists with secure dropboxes (electronic or otherwise) for tip-offs and leaks. Of course someone else could have done it.
I think it's quite clear that Wikileaks as an organisation fulfilled a role quite distinct from traditional journalism, and was somewhat sui generis. There's probably a reason that many whistleblowers/leakers seemingly preferred Wikileaks to other journalists (and of course some didn't, like Snowden).
It's true that mainstream journalism as a whole wasn't very good at that at that particular point in time, but Wikileaks could easily have worked with some of them (probably smaller one rather than the big cable news channels).

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm

For sure. Probably a non-narcissistic a..eh.le could have done a better job in that role. But OTOH I think there's a question as to whether large collaborative leak-based journalism, like the Paradise Papers etc., were in part spurred on by competition with Wikileaks.
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:56 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm
For sure. Probably a non-narcissistic a..eh.le could have done a better job in that role. But OTOH I think there's a question as to whether large collaborative leak-based journalism, like the Paradise Papers etc., were in part spurred on by competition with Wikileaks.
Probably it was easier to get permission from editors etc. to pursue it, certainly.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:15 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:56 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:43 pm
For sure. Probably a non-narcissistic a..eh.le could have done a better job in that role. But OTOH I think there's a question as to whether large collaborative leak-based journalism, like the Paradise Papers etc., were in part spurred on by competition with Wikileaks.
Probably it was easier to get permission from editors etc. to pursue it, certainly.
Back then there was a skills shortage in traditional media. Journalists who were used to cultivating human sources didn't know what to do with gigabytes of leaked files. That changed pretty quickly as the better news organizations started hiring new people.

Bellingcat is an example of an organization which has done excellent innovative investigations without being a..eholes.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by plodder » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:27 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm
plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Winkling those apache gunship files out was a public good. I don’t understand the “but someone else could have done it instead” argument.
There are hundreds of US and European journalists with secure dropboxes (electronic or otherwise) for tip-offs and leaks. Of course someone else could have done it.
Uh? The point being?

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Martin Y » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:12 pm

plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:27 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:15 pm
plodder wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:20 pm
Winkling those apache gunship files out was a public good. I don’t understand the “but someone else could have done it instead” argument.
There are hundreds of US and European journalists with secure dropboxes (electronic or otherwise) for tip-offs and leaks. Of course someone else could have done it.
Uh? The point being?
Yeah, I'm confused too. Someone did it. Could have been someone else who did it, in which case someone else would have done it. Where are we now?

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by plodder » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:59 pm

The person who actually did it is a baddie, but if someone else had done it they would be a goodie, I think.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by lpm » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:43 am

Alleged rapist loses the next stage and can be extradited.

Amazing how long he's spent in self-imposed prison and actual prison now.
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:59 am

Yeah, I was going to say. It's incredible that in order to avoid extradition to a country that possibly would've imprisoned him and which has stronger defences against extradition to the US, Assange imprisoned himself for seven years voluntarily, then promptly got actually imprisoned in a country which has weaker defences against extradition to the US.

Some great choices there from our Jools.
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:53 am

He had a ‘mini-stroke’ while in jail: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... l-25675807

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Opti » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:46 pm

Extradition approved.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:55 pm

lpm wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:43 am
Alleged rapist loses the next stage and can be extradited.
To what extent is it alleged when his response was not to claim that he didn't do it, but to wonder what the big deal about what he did is?

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by IvanV » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:06 pm

Not quite yet. Priti Patel still has to sign the order. And that article suggests he has a final shot at appealing it after that, despite his earlier failure to be allowed an appeal.

I've long felt he was a fool for failing to return to Sweden. He seems to have gambled on the "or the horse might talk" strategy, ie, get a delay and who knows what might happen. Johnson knows this strategy well. For example, he managed to delay with partygate, and the Ukraine war came along to distract from it. But in Assange's case, the horse has so far failed to talk, and none of the other potential benefits of delay has yet turned up.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Sciolus » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:46 pm

IvanV wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:06 pm
"or the horse might talk"
Anyone unfamiliar with the many, many stories of Hodja Nasreddin needs to spend some time in the company of their favourite search engine.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Herainestold » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:01 pm

IvanV wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:06 pm
Not quite yet. Priti Patel still has to sign the order. And that article suggests he has a final shot at appealing it after that, despite his earlier failure to be allowed an appeal.

I've long felt he was a fool for failing to return to Sweden. He seems to have gambled on the "or the horse might talk" strategy, ie, get a delay and who knows what might happen. Johnson knows this strategy well. For example, he managed to delay with partygate, and the Ukraine war came along to distract from it. But in Assange's case, the horse has so far failed to talk, and none of the other potential benefits of delay has yet turned up.
Does he have legal UK residence?
Just deport him to Australia and let him live out his life as he sees fit.
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Al Capone Junior » Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:46 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:49 pm
Similarly, the US prison system (and its justice system for political prisoners) isn't very good. Even if Assange belongs in jail that doesn't mean he should be extradited to a US one.
For everyone that's dissing the "justice" system in the US from the safety of their own far more liberal places of residence...

It's actually much worse than that. At least if you're poor. Due process for them means you get to become a charter member of the latest for-profit prison system. You'll be living in brand new, state of the art hellhole. Sometimes referred to by residents as "gladiator camp."

Rich ppl of course get the red carpet/rubber stamp version of due process. This allows them to sidestep such inconveniences as going to jail or "consequences"

Also, recall the great organization, and what it's letters stand for

SCOTUS

SERVING CORPORATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES

Or, as they morph to fit the needs of a modern, 18th century society...

SERVING CHRISTIANS OF THE UNITED STATES

Also, since I'm in Texas, please try to get the order of the universe correct:

GOD------->JESUS------>THE DALLAS COWBOYS------>you

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by lpm » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:15 am

He started hiding in his cupboard 10 years ago almost to the day.

Now extradition and further endless delays in US courts. I'm not convinced they'll give him bail.
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by discovolante » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:56 am

Jesus christ what a life.
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:19 am

IvanV wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:06 pm
Not quite yet.
Looks like she'll sign.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61839256

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by IvanV » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:41 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:19 am
IvanV wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:06 pm
Not quite yet.
Looks like she'll sign.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61839256
I think she has now signed. Not entirely sure why she took her time. But he has 14 days to mount a final appeal.

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Re: Julian Assange

Post by TopBadger » Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:58 pm

IvanV wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:41 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:19 am
IvanV wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:06 pm
Not quite yet.
Looks like she'll sign.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61839256
I think she has now signed. Not entirely sure why she took her time. But he has 14 days to mount a final appeal.
So we can expect the appeal next Thursday/Friday then - might as well eek out the inevitable...
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Re: Julian Assange

Post by basementer » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:45 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:19 am
IvanV wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:06 pm
Not quite yet.
Looks like she'll sign.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61839256
The BBC wrote:In May 2019, while serving a jail sentence in the UK for breaching bail, the US justice department filed 17 charges against Mr Assange
I must have missed the bit where the US justice department ended up in jail in the UK.
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