Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:51 pm

Worked fine for me.

Don't we have a few members local to Leighton Buzzard? Anyone been to Curiositea?
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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:01 pm

I'm near there but have not been (it's in Ivinghoe rather than LB town centre).
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by monkey » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:25 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:40 pm
JQH wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:21 am
Stephanie wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:03 am
Another MP who voted against free school meals, then trying to arrange a photo opportunity at a local business offering meals https://twitter.com/AdrianBethune/statu ... 4016968705
I just got "Something went wrong" when I tried to load that Twitter thread. Happpening a lot lately but not everytime
I'm getting it too, FWIW.
I get that with Twitter sometimes, normally works on the second click of the link, but not a refresh of the page, unlike jaap! I suspect it's something to do with their cookies.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by bagpuss » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:49 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:01 pm
I'm near there but have not been (it's in Ivinghoe rather than LB town centre).
It's not far from me either. They advertise on my local Fb group and come across as decent humans with a nice little business. They're on my mental "pop in next time I'm in the area" list but I haven't been there since I became aware of the place.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by discovolante » Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:58 am

don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Fishnut » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:55 am

Yay!!

That's one battle won. I'm so happy that his comments note that this isn't the end of the war though,
Rashford said he remained concerned about the children who would miss out on help "because their family income isn't quite enough".
Hopefully by having this expansion take place under a Tory government, if we ever manage to kick them out and get Labour in charge extending/expanding these sorts of schemes shouldn't be so difficult to do.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Little waster » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:47 am

Well I can see now why it was so important for the government to fight so hard and for so long against this “nationalisation if children” for so long regardless of the human and political damage.




Oops sorry I was holding this thing upside-down, I meant to say no I can’t.
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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Trinucleus » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:52 pm

Little waster wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:47 am
Well I can see now why it was so important for the government to fight so hard and for so long against this “nationalisation if children” for so long regardless of the human and political damage.




Oops sorry I was holding this thing upside-down, I meant to say no I can’t.
Their razor sharp PA people have worked out that starving children over Christmas may not play well

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by dyqik » Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:20 pm

And that u-turning on the day Trump lost would lessen the blow.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by jimbob » Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:16 pm

dyqik wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:20 pm
And that u-turning on the day Trump lost would lessen the blow.
It does seem like it.

I wonder how the Tory MPs will try to spin their vehement refutation of this idea until now.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by mediocrity511 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:58 pm

I'm a little bit concerned that doing this through local councils means that provision will be patchy. Some councils might provide vouchers, whilst others may channel their funding into food banks. It isn't an automatic right to a meal for FSM children in the holidays.

That said, I know the councils summer food and activity schemes are very good in some places. Our local toddler groups (pre covid) were part of them and every participant received packed lunches to take away, which meant it was accessible and non stigmatisong.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Fishnut » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:35 pm

mediocrity511 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:58 pm
I'm a little bit concerned that doing this through local councils means that provision will be patchy. Some councils might provide vouchers, whilst others may channel their funding into food banks. It isn't an automatic right to a meal for FSM children in the holidays.

That said, I know the councils summer food and activity schemes are very good in some places. Our local toddler groups (pre covid) were part of them and every participant received packed lunches to take away, which meant it was accessible and non stigmatisong.
A legitimate concern. The variation between local authorities is a real problem.

I've been trying to think of solutions but I'm stuck.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by mediocrity511 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:42 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:35 pm
mediocrity511 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:58 pm
I'm a little bit concerned that doing this through local councils means that provision will be patchy. Some councils might provide vouchers, whilst others may channel their funding into food banks. It isn't an automatic right to a meal for FSM children in the holidays.

That said, I know the councils summer food and activity schemes are very good in some places. Our local toddler groups (pre covid) were part of them and every participant received packed lunches to take away, which meant it was accessible and non stigmatisong.
A legitimate concern. The variation between local authorities is a real problem.

I've been trying to think of solutions but I'm stuck.
I don't see why they couldn't just make it a national voucher system. Ok it was pretty chaotic with Edenred. But we have had Healthy Start vouchers and previously milk tokens available as part of the welfare state for aeons, so a similar scheme should be viable. There could alternatively be a holiday uplift to people's benefits, like the £10 Christmas bonus.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Fishnut » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:56 pm

I'd be happy with free school meals for all school pupils, regardless of age or need. It would reduce admin costs and reduce the stigma around them, plus it would be one less stress for parents. The question of how to provision during school holidays would still need to be addressed but as I think was said earlier in this thread, FSMs are a sign that benefits are not sufficient so the obvious solution is to increase them.

I think my inability to think of solutions is because I can't work out whether to be constrained by reality and think of the minimum viable solution for this particular issue, or to think big and just try to completely upend the system entirely.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by AMS » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:20 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:56 pm
I'd be happy with free school meals for all school pupils, regardless of age or need. It would reduce admin costs and reduce the stigma around them, plus it would be one less stress for parents. The question of how to provision during school holidays would still need to be addressed but as I think was said earlier in this thread, FSMs are a sign that benefits are not sufficient so the obvious solution is to increase them.

I think my inability to think of solutions is because I can't work out whether to be constrained by reality and think of the minimum viable solution for this particular issue, or to think big and just try to completely upend the system entirely.
Thinking big is best. FSMs are to an extent a sticking plaster for a much bigger problem. And it's not just about benefit levels - I can't remember the stats, but a large proportion of go to families where people are in low paid employment. So why are we in a situation where some wages don't meet the cost of living, and how do we fix that?

Also, a technicality of the current system - FSM eligibility is also used as a deprivation level measure for unlocking additional funding to schools. But currently there is universal provision of free meals for infants, i.e. reception through to year 2, so the incentive to apply is not there. (I dont know how much hassle it is to apply, but I presume it's not trivial.) My kids are out of this age bracket now, but when they were the school sent reminders every year to ask those who'd be entitled to apply for FSMs, even though it made no difference to actually feeding the kids - it was important for the additional budget it brought to the school.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:50 pm

THINK BIG AND UPEND THE SYSTEM
THINK BIG AND UPEND THE SYSTEM

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:53 pm

:
QRYhisHmKCsC.jpg
QRYhisHmKCsC.jpg (20.49 KiB) Viewed 263 times
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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Millennie Al » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:29 am

Fishnut wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:56 pm
I'd be happy with free school meals for all school pupils, regardless of age or need. It would reduce admin costs and reduce the stigma around them, plus it would be one less stress for parents. The question of how to provision during school holidays would still need to be addressed but as I think was said earlier in this thread, FSMs are a sign that benefits are not sufficient so the obvious solution is to increase them.
Another advantage of FSM is that it is one of the very few benefits that can be given directly to the children. In principle, it should also be overall cheaper for a school to provide meals in bulk than for each pupil to provide their own, though it may not work out that way if the pupils dislike the food provided.
I think my inability to think of solutions is because I can't work out whether to be constrained by reality and think of the minimum viable solution for this particular issue, or to think big and just try to completely upend the system entirely.
If you think big, you're trying something less tested, so there's more scope for it to go wrong. When it then does go wrong, this is used to prove that it's impossible by those who disagree with the general approach. It's best to save the radical redesign for something which can be tested in miniature first, and then expand it when the exact details have been worked out.

And, in the case of the scheme just announced, I'll wait a bit longer before deciding it's good news. The story says that money will be for "help with food and bills". What bills? Council tax? Broadband? Rent? It could easily end up simply replacing some existing payment.
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by FlammableFlower » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:21 pm

In light of the recent issues with the Trump campaign's press conferences, a UK company reaches out to offer help to Johnson...

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by discovolante » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:36 pm

Oh my god he's gone and started a book club for kids :cry:
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by bmforre » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:08 pm

discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:36 pm
Oh my god he's gone and started a book club for kids :cry:
Inspired by the Imagination Library?

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:20 pm

I'm confused by the crying emoji, and now wondering if I have an emoji-specific form of autism.

Sounds like Rashford is taking on various projects to help kids in the UK.
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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by discovolante » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:34 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:20 pm
I'm confused by the crying emoji, and now wondering if I have an emoji-specific form of autism.

Sounds like Rashford is taking on various projects to help kids in the UK.
Heh, it's crying with emotion. The choice here is limited.
don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen

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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:41 pm

discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:34 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:20 pm
I'm confused by the crying emoji, and now wondering if I have an emoji-specific form of autism.

Sounds like Rashford is taking on various projects to help kids in the UK.
Heh, it's crying with emotion. The choice here is limited.
Well yes, but which emotion? ;) *

My guess is that you think the book club is a Good Thing, so you must be crying with approval / admiration / endorsement.

*In real life I wink all the time, for almost no reason, so I endeavour to use the emoji in the same way. In this case I'm winking with curiosity ;) ;)
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Re: Free school meals bill defeated - the final straw

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:44 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:50 pm
THINK BIG AND UPEND THE SYSTEM
I still love this turn of phrase (and of course the sentiment). I realise that I've stuck it in my sig without acknowledging Fishnut, but this is where I got it from. Thanks Fishnut!

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