The US after Trump

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Herainestold
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Herainestold » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:32 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:10 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:50 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:45 pm

Yes, there are huge challenges ahead. Swapping the president might make things a little easier, but the whole country is still riddled with racists from top to bottom.
Almost 50% racist and white supremacist if the election results are to be believed.
Which is still better than having a one party state forcing hundreds of thousands of people into camps purely because of their ethnicity, and trying to destroy the culture of every cultural, ethnic and linguistic minority.

In case I'm not clear enough here, f.ck off you fascist bootlicker.
Have a nice day, Lucifer.

secret squirrel
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:56 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:10 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:50 pm
Almost 50% racist and white supremacist if the election results are to be believed.
Which is still better than having a one party state forcing hundreds of thousands of people into camps purely because of their ethnicity, and trying to destroy the culture of every cultural, ethnic and linguistic minority.

In case I'm not clear enough here, f.ck off you fascist bootlicker.
This is that whataboutery you like accusing people of. Also, the Chinese state is bad in a lot of ways, but going on about how bad they are when the faaaar from innocent state you pledge allegiance to and its even worse ally are trying to drum up righteous fervor against them for strategic reasons doesn't make you heroic. It just makes you a nationalist.

EACLucifer
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:30 pm

secret squirrel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:56 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:10 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:50 pm
Almost 50% racist and white supremacist if the election results are to be believed.
Which is still better than having a one party state forcing hundreds of thousands of people into camps purely because of their ethnicity, and trying to destroy the culture of every cultural, ethnic and linguistic minority.

In case I'm not clear enough here, f.ck off you fascist bootlicker.
This is that whataboutery you like accusing people of. Also, the Chinese state is bad in a lot of ways, but going on about how bad they are when the faaaar from innocent state you pledge allegiance to and its even worse ally are trying to drum up righteous fervor against them for strategic reasons doesn't make you heroic. It just makes you a nationalist.
I don't pledge allegiance to anyone you utter plank, but I do not think this forum should welcome apologists for fascism, something Herainestold is.

Because any criticism of the US by an open apologist for fascism like Herainestold is utterly hypocritical.

Perhaps he could clear things up by engaging with any of the evidence that has been discussed here regarding Chinese atrocities against the Uighurs.

secret squirrel
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by secret squirrel » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:48 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:30 pm
I don't pledge allegiance to anyone you utter plank, but I do not think this forum should welcome apologists for fascism, something Herainestold is.

Because any criticism of the US by an open apologist for fascism like Herainestold is utterly hypocritical.

Perhaps he could clear things up by engaging with any of the evidence that has been discussed here regarding Chinese atrocities against the Uighurs.
Mate, iirc you're a staunch supporter of Israel, so this 'but think of the Uighurs!' comes across as pretty disingenuous. There is clearly a reason why what China is doing feels super bad to you, and what Israel is doing and what we have done in the not very distant past (e.g. in Iraq) doesn't feel so bad to you, and it probably has something to do with the decades of propaganda aimed to get people in the West convinced that our bloc's strategic enemies just happen to be uniquely evil, the sinister shadows surrounding our circle of flickering firelight. At least Herainestold's pro China bias is interesting*, which is more than I can say for your conveyor belt of Whig opinions.

* In view of its relative novelty.

Millennie Al
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Millennie Al » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:17 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:42 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:36 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:23 pm
One good bit of news is the first Hatch Act investigation is already happening (regarding use of the White House as an election headquarters, in this case, but many more investigations are needed). I'd love it if it became the norm that, at the end of every administration, there was an open, public enquiry into proper use of government resources. It might focus minds on not doing the sort of corrupt sh.t Trump's done.
Be careful what you wish for. What happens to people like Trump when they leave office will be done by people like Trump when they gain office. And if you make loss of office bad enough you undermine the transfer of power as it becomes worth using any desperate measures to hang on. In the specific case of Trump, he cannot hang on because he's incompetent, but it's easy to imagine a more competent, nasty office holder.
I'm talking about a non-partisan investigation into the use of taxpayer dollars to campaign. It's fairly simple, and your argument could equally be applied to "be careful about wanting laws against murder - bad people could make up evidence of a murder and jail people".
Who is going to perform this investigation? Santa Claus? Once groups are big and powerful enough it's impossible to achieve justice. That's why armed conflicts usually need to be ended by a truth and reconciliation commission and terrorists get freed. Or, of course you could try for justice, but that only ends when one side has killed or completely subdued the other.

Investigations and prosecutions can only hope to implement justice when the are independent of the people involved. At a sufficiently large scale they cannot be.

If there had been a tradition of the incoming administration taking revenge, then Hillary would be in prison. As has been said, "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." and the realities of politics are that there will always be plenty to accuse a politician of.

And that's why Blair is very unlikely to be convicted of war crimes.
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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dyqik
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by dyqik » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:05 pm

There's whole divisions of each government department dedicated to doing that kind of investigation - the offices of the Inspector General.

Millennie Al
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Millennie Al » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:31 am

dyqik wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:05 pm
There's whole divisions of each government department dedicated to doing that kind of investigation - the offices of the Inspector General.
How independent are they? Consider carefully that Trump, for example, fired five Inspectors General in six weeks earlier this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_dism ... rs_general
Covid-19 - Don't catch it: don't spread it.

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