The US after Trump

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Gfamily
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Gfamily » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:53 pm

bjn wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:47 pm
Edit: why image not appear in quotes?
They don't. You can right click the image and put the image url in [img] tags
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:56 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Vertigowooyay wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:57 pm
And Biden probably won't have the Senate, and they will try and block and obfuscate as much as they can to make him a lame duck president from the start. If he wants to prove to that 69 million that his politics can make their lives better than under Trump, he'll have to flex executive order muscle and that will cause problems all of its own.
Apparently there are likely to be a couple of runoffs that could give the Democrats control of the senate, as the votes this time were so close. That (and this tweet) makes me wonder: Will there be a higher or lower Republican turnout at the runoff election? It might be higher because those Republicans who stayed at home because they couldn't stand Trump might turn out, but it might be lower if they are of the "Trump or nothing" persuasion.
Trump was probably the perfect candidate for downballot Rs - brought the imbeciles to the polls to vote straight ticket, and independents to ticket split against Trump because the weren't happy voting straight D. Dems did much better in 2018, might happen again in runoffs.

Perdue is a crook, and Ossoff hammered him in debate. No idea who Libertarian votes will break for once they are eliminated from race, but in Arizona, Capt Kelly was running with roughly Biden+Jorgenson level of support. Perdue was able to skip last debate by hiding behind national race.

Loeghler is also a crook, and deeply unpleasant. Like Perdue, she shifted stocks because of privileged info re: covid while lying to public about risk. She fought a bitter race against another Rep, both trying to outmanoevre each other on the right. She's up against the Reverend Raphael Warnock - his rhetoric is solid, and he's probably got cross party appeal, in part from being a pastor. Might see some ticket splitting with Warnock/Perdue a possibility, for people who don't mind crooks, but are repelled by Loeghler's repulsive personality and positions. Loeghler may find it hard to get mass support without Trump around, too, as her entire campaign was based on being a rubber stamp with no independent thoughts.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by dyqik » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:01 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:18 pm
dyqik wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:09 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:04 pm


How can he make a deal, though? What's his leverage? If he's lost he's got to f.ck off, end of.
Armed mobs on the streets, mostly.
Meh. Wouldn't be the first time this year. A few people get hurt, a bunch of young people get incarcerated, and nothing fundamentally changes. Whatevs.
Yeah, Vanilla ISIS aren't that numerous. But the police will likely defend them against unarmed counter-protestors.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by JQH » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:09 pm

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:25 pm
I'll say this about the Deep State - you have to admire how they don't leave a shred of evidence behind. I mean, that's real professionalism.
Just shows how long they have been planning this.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by JQH » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:21 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:50 pm
...
They know that if a black woman gets a job, a white man loses a job ...
In one case this will be true: Kamala Harris becomes Vice-President. Mike Pence becomes unemployed.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by AMS » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:34 pm

Interesting snippet that I read today - Obama often used Biden as the go-between between his administration and Mitch McConnell, as Biden was respected and generally seen as a good faith negotiator by the Senate Republicans.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:43 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:01 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:18 pm
dyqik wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:09 pm


Armed mobs on the streets, mostly.
Meh. Wouldn't be the first time this year. A few people get hurt, a bunch of young people get incarcerated, and nothing fundamentally changes. Whatevs.
Yeah, Vanilla ISIS aren't that numerous. But the police will likely defend them against unarmed counter-protestors.
Hah! I'd forgotten "Vanilla ISIS". Megalolz.
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by nekomatic » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:20 pm

Vertigowooyay wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:25 pm
I'll say this about the Deep State - you have to admire how they don't leave a shred of evidence behind. I mean, that's real professionalism.
And yet they apparently couldn’t manage to fix Georgia enough to avoid a recount, nor to win a couple more Senate seats. SAD.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by AMS » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:24 pm

nekomatic wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:20 pm
Vertigowooyay wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:25 pm
I'll say this about the Deep State - you have to admire how they don't leave a shred of evidence behind. I mean, that's real professionalism.
And yet they apparently couldn’t manage to fix Georgia enough to avoid a recount, nor to win a couple more Senate seats. SAD.
Got to keep it plausible, haven't they?

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:32 pm

All this attack on the electoral system rhetoric from the GOP is going to be music to the ears of Ossoff and Warnock, especially Warnock. I expect Dem turnout to be quite high, probably, if they play their cards right, but GOP could suppress their own vote here, and Loeghler is certainly dumb enough to fall for spreading this rhetoric.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by bmforre » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:24 am

Opti wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:22 pm
... I fear there will be outbreaks of violence regardless. Should that be irregardless? ;)
Merriam-Webster write:
Does irregardless mean the same thing as regardless?
Yes. We define irregardless as "regardless." Many people find irregardless to be a nonsensical word, as the ir- prefix usually functions to indicate negation; however, in this case it appears to function as an intensifier. Similar ir- words, while rare, do exist in English, including irremediless ("remediless"), irresistless ("resistless") and irrelentlessly ("relentlessly).
On etymology:
History and Etymology for irregardless

probably blend of irrespective and regardless
strongly hinting that this form adds some confusion but no information and classing it as nonstandard:
Is irregardless slang?

We label irregardless as “nonstandard” rather than “slang.” When a word is nonstandard it means it is “not conforming in pronunciation, grammatical construction, idiom, or word choice to the usage generally characteristic of educated native speakers of a language.” Irregardless is a long way from winning general acceptance as a standard English word. For that reason, it is best to use regardless instead.
... unless you feel a need for some added confusion After Trump?

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by bmforre » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:47 am

Stacey Abrams: Flipping Georgia
Here is a breakthrough in
the work she had started years before to organize and mobilize an army of voters to break the Republican Party’s lock on state politics and create a government that looked more like the new Georgia.

That army, anchored in metro Atlanta and in smaller pockets of predominantly Black cities and counties, helped to push former vice president Joe Biden several thousand votes ahead of President Trump in the state this week. Now Democrats are on the verge of achieving a long-held dream: flipping Georgia, which hasn’t voted for a presidential nominee of that party since 1992...

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by dyqik » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:05 pm

It's worth noting that Obama's background in Chicago is similar types of community organizing.

What's needed is to take that organizing and adapt it to rural and sub/ex-urban white America. That's not going to look the same, but if it can reduce the GOP margins in suburban and rural areas of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Iowa, North Carolina, etc. then the electoral map and Senate open up a lot.

It might take a decade to get there though

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:15 pm

dyqik wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:05 pm
It's worth noting that Obama's background in Chicago is similar types of community organizing.

What's needed is to take that organizing and adapt it to rural and sub/ex-urban white America. That's not going to look the same, but if it can reduce the GOP margins in suburban and rural areas of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Iowa, North Carolina, etc. then the electoral map and Senate open up a lot.

It might take a decade to get there though
Is there a lot of suppressed Democrat voting there, then?
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by dyqik » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:17 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:15 pm
dyqik wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:05 pm
It's worth noting that Obama's background in Chicago is similar types of community organizing.

What's needed is to take that organizing and adapt it to rural and sub/ex-urban white America. That's not going to look the same, but if it can reduce the GOP margins in suburban and rural areas of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Iowa, North Carolina, etc. then the electoral map and Senate open up a lot.

It might take a decade to get there though
Is there a lot of suppressed Democrat voting there, then?
No, but there's a lot of uninformed knee-jerk Republican voting from people who support a fair number of liberal policies, and a lot of missing turnout. This is about convincing people to consider policy rather than tribal voting, and convincing people that your party is listening to them.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:33 pm

dyqik wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:17 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:15 pm
dyqik wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:05 pm
It's worth noting that Obama's background in Chicago is similar types of community organizing.

What's needed is to take that organizing and adapt it to rural and sub/ex-urban white America. That's not going to look the same, but if it can reduce the GOP margins in suburban and rural areas of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Iowa, North Carolina, etc. then the electoral map and Senate open up a lot.

It might take a decade to get there though
Is there a lot of suppressed Democrat voting there, then?
No, but there's a lot of uninformed knee-jerk Republican voting from people who support a fair number of liberal policies, and a lot of missing turnout. This is about convincing people to consider policy rather than tribal voting, and convincing people that your party is listening to them.
Fair enough. Certainly a worthy initiative - probably the only way to break through online misinformation is through in-person outreach. But as you say that could well take a lot longer than what's just been achieved in GA.
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Re: The US after Trump

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:14 pm

bmforre wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:47 am
Stacey Abrams: Flipping Georgia
I quite like the idea of "Flipping Georgia" being something that a posh Oxford student called Allegra or Camilla would exclaim when she finds her flatmate has stolen her last Gü dessert.
Something something hammer something something nail

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by dyqik » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:16 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:14 pm
bmforre wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:47 am
Stacey Abrams: Flipping Georgia
I quite like the idea of "Flipping Georgia" being something that a posh Oxford student called Allegra or Camilla would exclaim when she finds her flatmate has stolen her last Gü dessert.
Or the claret is corked.

Which is another phrase that could become a euphemism.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by jimbob » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:27 pm

bjn wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:47 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:26 pm
Vertigowooyay wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:57 pm
And Biden probably won't have the Senate, and they will try and block and obfuscate as much as they can to make him a lame duck president from the start. If he wants to prove to that 69 million that his politics can make their lives better than under Trump, he'll have to flex executive order muscle and that will cause problems all of its own.
Apparently there are likely to be a couple of runoffs that could give the Democrats control of the senate, as the votes this time were so close. That (and this tweet) makes me wonder: Will there be a higher or lower Republican turnout at the runoff election? It might be higher because those Republicans who stayed at home because they couldn't stand Trump might turn out, but it might be lower if they are of the "Trump or nothing" persuasion.


Untitled.png
It would be a shame if liberal bots were to retweet that, regularly and often.

Edit: why image not appear in quotes?
Oh, I'm not a bot, but I certainly did as soon as I saw it. With a screenshot
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by sideshowjim » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:11 pm

He's still kind of dependent on the groups that supported him, mostly the GOP and Murdoch press. Both of whom seem to be trying to distance themselves from his "No actually I won if you don't count the votes that weren't for me" approach.

The GOP has a mix of A- cowards who saw what was happening but want to keep power, B- a..eholes who saw the Trump admin as their time to shine, and C- New members from the KKK/Qanon/Boogaloo movements. Thankfully so far it seems that group A are seemingly greatful that the whole debacle is ending and they can stew in their worthless cowardice.
B and C are probably going to carry on screeching about how they were the true patriots against the evil pizza cellars etc. Group B are hoping for speaking gigs and pundit roles etc I assume. Group C will keep declaring conspiracies and will probably embarrass the GOP more than help (assuming the full on cult structure starts to break down, which with the loss of the Orange family it probably will).

Thing is, Biden needs to show that there are consequences for collusion with hostile foreign powers and encouraging domestic terrorism etc. And that's going to require working with the GOP somewhat. Which they won't bl..dy like doing (even if some of the cowards are happy to lose their new "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US"-themed supporters). And that may push those in group B who are enjoying their pundit roles back towards group C (and group A will follow, because cowards).

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by bmforre » Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:28 am

Thanksgiving coming up I wonder:
Can a Lame Duck pardon a Turkey?

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by bmforre » Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:32 am

Next planning issue:
Will the White House be prettified for Xmas or will the Grand Antivirus Cleanup have priority this season?

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by JQH » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:06 pm

Deleted because I pressed quote instead of edit
Last edited by JQH on Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by JQH » Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:16 pm

I don't think Johnson is going to get much traction:

https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/13 ... -a-raab%2F



ETA: "Shapeshifting creep" sums him up perfectly. His entire career in two words.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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Re: The US after Trump

Post by Tessa K » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:24 am

There's a lot of talk about reconciliation and forgiveness to heal the rift in US society but that's letting the racists and other bigots off the hook. Some people don't deserve forgiveness. To earn it the offenders need to take responsibility for their actions and change their ways, otherwise it's the victims who have to do all the work and the offenders just carry on. Not everyone who voted Trump is a rabid racist but they stand alongside people who are, tacitly validating their views. Telling people to forgive is not justice.

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