Crisp packets for the homeless
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:02 am
Given that reflective aluminised blankets can be had from as little as 40p in bulk, it seems a little bit like hard work to me.discovolante wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:02 amhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-54888102
Top marks for inventiveness.
This. And a donation to a relevant charity is of far more use.
Not only could we do it, we have done it. We got pretty much all the homeless people off the streets during the lockdown. Why that time wasn't used to provision ongoing services and accommodation I honestly don't know. Except I do. We can't be seen to give "handouts" can we? Can't have feckless people taking unearned services. Look at the fight to get poor kids fed over the school holidays. And they're kids!nezumi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:53 pmI'm still totally confused about how we can't give literally everyone a roof over their head. It's not really much to ask. It doesn't have to be an actual house, it can be a basic bedsit in a well-lit and secure block. Not for people to make lives in, just to give them a step up to something permanent. Not that expensive and not exactly rocket science.
There are shedloads of office blocks standing empty. If we, as a country, really wanted it to happen we could make it happen. And yet we don't because ideology.
Bah!
It goes back much further than that - the BBC article links to similar articles from 2011.Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:30 pmI saw people talking about crisp packet blankets on twitter a few days ago. This tweet in particular stuck with me. It seems to have started with this woman back in February.
As BOAF has said, Miley Porritt has been homeless for basically all of his adult life until a year ago, at which point he finally got a flat, set up his own ironing business and is now doing this. Obviously that doesn't make him 'right' and I only have the info in the story but I think to some extent there's something to be said for people who have experienced homelessness being involved in homelessness-related work, if that's what they want to do. I shared this story with my department at work (who are interested in this sort of thing) along the lines of sleeping in crisp packets not exactly being a good news story and the reaction was unsurprisingly a bit mixed.I get the desire to want to help but this seems like a classic example of doing something for yourself, not for those you claim to want to help. Four hours to make a 'bivi bag' from crisp packets??? What a waste of time and electricity. I don't want to sh.t on the work of Miley Porritt, or Pen Hutson or any of the other people who are trying to help but it really makes me sad and a bit angry that providing people with rubbish is seen as (and probably is) compassionate. As Don pointed out, proper aluminised blankets can be purchased for a next to nothing.
Lots of people are trying to do this, to be fair. I'm quite happy to pin nearly all of the blame on the government for this, at least at the moment.We need to do something about the homeless. The last time I was in Bristol the number of people on the streets was shocking (I swear the numbers go up every time I go in).
We didn't though, unfortunately. A lot of people were put in hotels and B&Bs, which is not the same as housing people - see e.g. here and here. It's better than melted crisp packets but it still wasn't a solution. Again I'm only really speaking from a Scottish perspective (although it is much colder here, brrr) but there are issues going on right now with legislation setting out what is defined as suitable accommodation for people (e.g. shared facilities etc), which is a mixture of issues that have been going on for years and years and those that have become acute as a result of coronavirus. And any legislation that passes will be breached repeatedly by councils anyway, as it always is. Which of course in itself comes back to tensions with local v central government, funding etc. I haven't been involve directly in homelessness work recently but I get the impression that a lot of councils used coronavirus as a reason to hide behind pre-existing failures to provide people with appropriate accommodation. However yes the issue is systemic and not just related to coronavirus, although it does vary a bit from council to council and it's much worse in some council areas than others.We showed it's possible to house everyone during the last lockdown so why did we kick them all back onto the streets when it ended? It's another example of not using the lockdown to get services in place that would be needed going forward.
Well if you have no disposable income and you can't volunteer anywhere because of the pandemic, then you don't need to feel bad.I feel hypocritical complaining about this given I'm not doing anything to help, but I just can't see how giving someone a blanket made of literal rubbish is supposed to make anyone feel better, either physically or mentally.
Mediocrity knows much more about this than me but Housing First is being tried in some areas and a consultation has recently opened in Scotland: https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/art ... n-scotland (there is a link to it on that page). But yes I agree. No strings attached (or as few strings attached as possible) housing is worth a punt. I'm working for some people who have an absolute ton of sh.t to deal with, and although to some extent they might not have sought help if they weren't facing eviction, the arbitrary nature of 'sort this out by this court hearing date or you might be evicted' isn't exactly conducive to helping people get into the frame of mind where they feel like there might be a way out of their situation.nezumi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:53 pmI'm still totally confused about how we can't give literally everyone a roof over their head. It's not really much to ask. It doesn't have to be an actual house, it can be a basic bedsit in a well-lit and secure block. Not for people to make lives in, just to give them a step up to something permanent. Not that expensive and not exactly rocket science.
There are shedloads of office blocks standing empty. If we, as a country, really wanted it to happen we could make it happen. And yet we don't because ideology.
Bah!
I may be wrong about this but I think part of the issue is that food banks that operate under the Trussell Trust don't actually directly see the money that people donate to the Trussell Trust. So that means setting up a donation page, hoping people will look for it etc, rather than just having a box near the checkout that people can chuck a few things in - and during non-pandemic times, occasionally being handed leaflets to tell them what to buy. And food banks are mostly pretty clear that you shouldn't be buying perishables. So yeah liquid is probably better than non-liquid but to an extent I would have thought that food bank charities have decided that they are going to get a better return by asking people to donate physical items rather than cash, so why fight against the tide.sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:58 pmWhile we're on the topic of helping people in the most efficient way possible: It really annoys me, especially at this time of year, to see food bank donation drives where they get people to donate a can of beans or a packet of pasta.
I think the idea of donating actual food comes from some amalgam of school harvest festivals and "helping starving people in Africa", but in a modern Western situation it's silly because there is no shortage of actual food(*). The £2 you spend on a couple of tins or packets would buy 5 or 6 of the same if given in cash, bypassing not only the shareholders of Tesco but also the need to pay someone to put it on a shelf and ring it up at a till. Plus, a volunteer wouldn't have to sort it, check the best before date, etc, for each separate container.
At the French food bank where I used to volunteer, we would usually smile politely and sigh when people brought in "helpful" donations. Our yoghurts came straight from the Danone factory, in the same pots as the retail version (food bank clients, quite reasonably, *love* to be given premium branded products) and with the outer packaging addressed directly to us. 120 count, straight onto the refrigerated shelves for the clients to help themselves (within their points limit).
(*) May not completely apply in the UK after 31 December 2020
Thanks for such a great post!discovolante wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:19 pmIt goes back much further than that - the BBC article links to similar articles from 2011.Fishnut wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:30 pmI saw people talking about crisp packet blankets on twitter a few days ago. This tweet in particular stuck with me. It seems to have started with this woman back in February.
As BOAF has said, Miley Porritt has been homeless for basically all of his adult life until a year ago, at which point he finally got a flat, set up his own ironing business and is now doing this. Obviously that doesn't make him 'right' and I only have the info in the story but I think to some extent there's something to be said for people who have experienced homelessness being involved in homelessness-related work, if that's what they want to do. I shared this story with my department at work (who are interested in this sort of thing) along the lines of sleeping in crisp packets not exactly being a good news story and the reaction was unsurprisingly a bit mixed.I get the desire to want to help but this seems like a classic example of doing something for yourself, not for those you claim to want to help. Four hours to make a 'bivi bag' from crisp packets??? What a waste of time and electricity. I don't want to sh.t on the work of Miley Porritt, or Pen Hutson or any of the other people who are trying to help but it really makes me sad and a bit angry that providing people with rubbish is seen as (and probably is) compassionate. As Don pointed out, proper aluminised blankets can be purchased for a next to nothing.
Lots of people are trying to do this, to be fair. I'm quite happy to pin nearly all of the blame on the government for this, at least at the moment.We need to do something about the homeless. The last time I was in Bristol the number of people on the streets was shocking (I swear the numbers go up every time I go in).
We didn't though, unfortunately. A lot of people were put in hotels and B&Bs, which is not the same as housing people - see e.g. here and here. It's better than melted crisp packets but it still wasn't a solution. Again I'm only really speaking from a Scottish perspective (although it is much colder here, brrr) but there are issues going on right now with legislation setting out what is defined as suitable accommodation for people (e.g. shared facilities etc), which is a mixture of issues that have been going on for years and years and those that have become acute as a result of coronavirus. And any legislation that passes will be breached repeatedly by councils anyway, as it always is. Which of course in itself comes back to tensions with local v central government, funding etc. I haven't been involve directly in homelessness work recently but I get the impression that a lot of councils used coronavirus as a reason to hide behind pre-existing failures to provide people with appropriate accommodation. However yes the issue is systemic and not just related to coronavirus, although it does vary a bit from council to council and it's much worse in some council areas than others.We showed it's possible to house everyone during the last lockdown so why did we kick them all back onto the streets when it ended? It's another example of not using the lockdown to get services in place that would be needed going forward.
Well if you have no disposable income and you can't volunteer anywhere because of the pandemic, then you don't need to feel bad.I feel hypocritical complaining about this given I'm not doing anything to help, but I just can't see how giving someone a blanket made of literal rubbish is supposed to make anyone feel better, either physically or mentally.
Mediocrity knows much more about this than me but Housing First is being tried in some areas and a consultation has recently opened in Scotland: https://www.scottishhousingnews.com/art ... n-scotland (there is a link to it on that page). But yes I agree. No strings attached (or as few strings attached as possible) housing is worth a punt. I'm working for some people who have an absolute ton of sh.t to deal with, and although to some extent they might not have sought help if they weren't facing eviction, the arbitrary nature of 'sort this out by this court hearing date or you might be evicted' isn't exactly conducive to helping people get into the frame of mind where they feel like there might be a way out of their situation.nezumi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:53 pmI'm still totally confused about how we can't give literally everyone a roof over their head. It's not really much to ask. It doesn't have to be an actual house, it can be a basic bedsit in a well-lit and secure block. Not for people to make lives in, just to give them a step up to something permanent. Not that expensive and not exactly rocket science.
There are shedloads of office blocks standing empty. If we, as a country, really wanted it to happen we could make it happen. And yet we don't because ideology.
Bah!
I may be wrong about this but I think part of the issue is that food banks that operate under the Trussell Trust don't actually directly see the money that people donate to the Trussell Trust. So that means setting up a donation page, hoping people will look for it etc, rather than just having a box near the checkout that people can chuck a few things in - and during non-pandemic times, occasionally being handed leaflets to tell them what to buy. And food banks are mostly pretty clear that you shouldn't be buying perishables. So yeah liquid is probably better than non-liquid but to an extent I would have thought that food bank charities have decided that they are going to get a better return by asking people to donate physical items rather than cash, so why fight against the tide.sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:58 pmWhile we're on the topic of helping people in the most efficient way possible: It really annoys me, especially at this time of year, to see food bank donation drives where they get people to donate a can of beans or a packet of pasta.
I think the idea of donating actual food comes from some amalgam of school harvest festivals and "helping starving people in Africa", but in a modern Western situation it's silly because there is no shortage of actual food(*). The £2 you spend on a couple of tins or packets would buy 5 or 6 of the same if given in cash, bypassing not only the shareholders of Tesco but also the need to pay someone to put it on a shelf and ring it up at a till. Plus, a volunteer wouldn't have to sort it, check the best before date, etc, for each separate container.
At the French food bank where I used to volunteer, we would usually smile politely and sigh when people brought in "helpful" donations. Our yoghurts came straight from the Danone factory, in the same pots as the retail version (food bank clients, quite reasonably, *love* to be given premium branded products) and with the outer packaging addressed directly to us. 120 count, straight onto the refrigerated shelves for the clients to help themselves (within their points limit).
(*) May not completely apply in the UK after 31 December 2020
^ THIS ^sTeamTraen wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:30 amIf I were to make an in-kind donation, I think I would go for toiletries, which food banks also distribute. The effect on client morale when we had a nice array of branded toothpaste or shower gel was considerable. Ditto sanitary towels, which have no sell-by date, and which women who have to choose between buying those or food for their kids may sometimes forego, as I was told during my eye-opening volunteer stints.
Bitcoin. They want bitcoin.Sciolus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:25 pmOr check what your local foodbank needs at the moment.
They seem happy to take food donations or money. I sort of assumed cash would be more cost-effective but that's probably me being a physicist.
I'm increasingly confident he may just be a troll. Or possibly a troll who is also a genuine apologist for fascism.