Jordan Peterson

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Jordan Peterson

Post by Tessa K » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:05 pm

There's an excellent series of clips here showing the dangerous shite Peterson spouts, some of them with takedowns. Not sure whether to laugh or cry.

https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status ... yYcBUb8fWU

User avatar
Vertigowooyay
Snowbonk
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:25 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Vertigowooyay » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:22 pm

The one where he opines that atheist artists only 'think they're godless' is the very working definition of arrogance. Pleasing that the audience just laughs at him though.
Calm yourself Doctor NotTheNineO’ClockNews. We’re men of science. We fear no worldly terrors.

secret squirrel
Snowbonk
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by secret squirrel » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:31 pm

Here's a good takedown in essay form. There's also the time he debated Marxism with Zizek (who is also a fairly absurd figure to be fair) and prepared by skimming the communist manifest the night before. Or his recent Benzo addiction and relocation to Russia for treatment. And the fact that his daughter is a meat-only diet crank. The man's a walking disaster on almost every level.

Herainestold
Dorkwood
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Herainestold » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:02 am

Has he resigned/ been terminated from his Uni?
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

cvb
Clardic Fug
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:15 am

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by cvb » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:54 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:31 pm
Here's a good takedown in essay form. There's also the time he debated Marxism with Zizek (who is also a fairly absurd figure to be fair) and prepared by skimming the communist manifest the night before. Or his recent Benzo addiction and relocation to Russia for treatment. And the fact that his daughter is a meat-only diet crank. The man's a walking disaster on almost every level.
I read the very long article. It was very good. Peterson is full of sh.t and I think on the other site there was a link to his lobsters theory and a debunking of it. I cannot find it now but it was entertaining.

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3010
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by jimbob » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:55 am

cvb wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:54 am
secret squirrel wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:31 pm
Here's a good takedown in essay form. There's also the time he debated Marxism with Zizek (who is also a fairly absurd figure to be fair) and prepared by skimming the communist manifest the night before. Or his recent Benzo addiction and relocation to Russia for treatment. And the fact that his daughter is a meat-only diet crank. The man's a walking disaster on almost every level.
I read the very long article. It was very good. Peterson is full of sh.t and I think on the other site there was a link to his lobsters theory and a debunking of it. I cannot find it now but it was entertaining.
Lobsters?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

cvb
Clardic Fug
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:15 am

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by cvb » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:59 am


User avatar
individualmember
Snowbonk
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:26 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by individualmember » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:04 am

Thanks guys. I shall bookmark links for use later.

TBH, I’ve always found him long on delivery and short on content. Vanishingly short usually.

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3010
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by jimbob » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:35 am

cvb wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:59 am
https://www.shortform.com/blog/jordan-p ... 0standing.

Not a critique, just an overview.
Ah, so something trivially obvious then. And using an animal example* that is rubbish - vertebrates would make far more sense. If I wanted to discover that humans are social animals that often try to increase their status, I can think of many authors - Desmond Morris was an original thinker around this in the 1960s, for example.

*I hesitate to use the word "model".
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Tessa K » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:37 am

Wiki has summarised the book to save us reading it although I would really like it if someone did a 12 Rules for Life pastiche (not a whole book, just a list) but I don't know enough science to do that.

It sounds like a mixture of his usual shite and cheesy homespun platitudes.

These are the chapter headings:
"Stand up straight with your shoulders back"
"Treat yourself like you are someone you are responsible for helping"
"Make friends with people who want the best for you"
"Compare yourself with who you were yesterday, not with who someone else is today"
"Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them"
"Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world"
"Pursue what is meaningful (not what is expedient)"
"Tell the truth — or, at least, don’t lie"
"Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don’t"
"Be precise in your speech"
"Do not bother children when they are skate-boarding"
"Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Rules_for_Life

EACLucifer
Dorkwood
Posts: 1026
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:14 am

It's basically always the same thing; a mixture of self help platitudes, small c conservatism and some reactionary stuff. And if his own life is to go by, he either: does not follow the self-help stuff, or it is useless.

Don't hype it up, that's really all it is. If that's dangerous, then I've got bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques.

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Tessa K » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:17 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:14 am
It's basically always the same thing; a mixture of self help platitudes, small c conservatism and some reactionary stuff. And if his own life is to go by, he either: does not follow the self-help stuff, or it is useless.

Don't hype it up, that's really all it is. If that's dangerous, then I've got bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques.
If it weren't for all the woman-hating incels who think he's a god, he'd be easier to ignore.

EACLucifer
Dorkwood
Posts: 1026
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:19 am

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:17 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:14 am
It's basically always the same thing; a mixture of self help platitudes, small c conservatism and some reactionary stuff. And if his own life is to go by, he either: does not follow the self-help stuff, or it is useless.

Don't hype it up, that's really all it is. If that's dangerous, then I've got bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques.
If it weren't for all the woman-hating incels who think he's a god, he'd be easier to ignore.
Bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques, then.

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Tessa K » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:14 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:19 am
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:17 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:14 am
It's basically always the same thing; a mixture of self help platitudes, small c conservatism and some reactionary stuff. And if his own life is to go by, he either: does not follow the self-help stuff, or it is useless.

Don't hype it up, that's really all it is. If that's dangerous, then I've got bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques.
If it weren't for all the woman-hating incels who think he's a god, he'd be easier to ignore.
Bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques, then.
Why? We know what they're like

EACLucifer
Dorkwood
Posts: 1026
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:12 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:14 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:19 am
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:17 am


If it weren't for all the woman-hating incels who think he's a god, he'd be easier to ignore.
Bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques, then.
Why? We know what they're like
Sorry if I was being a bit snappy, but Jordan Peterson really is just low grade reactionary self help. It isn't some dangerous forbidden knowledge, and the degree to which he's labelled as dangerous is out of proportion to what he does, and frankly, flatters him.

Herainestold
Dorkwood
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Herainestold » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:34 pm

His bio still lists him as Professor at University of Toronto. He hasn't been on campus or taught classes since 2018.


There were petitions and protests against him because he is a fascist apologist.

Has he been subtly and quietly de-platformed? Will his latest tome see the light of day. Looks like a has been to me.
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

User avatar
Boustrophedon
After Pie
Posts: 2336
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:58 pm
Location: Lincolnshire Wolds

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Boustrophedon » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:50 pm

I have to confess that I have paid scant attention to him, I listened too a couple of his talks, but was way too distracted by my internal dialogue of "wait, what?", "What does that even mean" and "That's utter bollocks" to be able to carry on listening. I gained the impression that he is a good speaker but not nearly as clever as he thinks he is. He has a tub to thump and he's thumping it good and hard with a fine collection of straw men.

Just for comparison, I am an excellent public speaker, a skill honed over a working lifetime of school assemblies, but that doesn't mean that I am particularly clever nor that have I anything left to say that is earth shattering. Presenting is just a skill, anyone can do it. It depresses me when people who have something good to say can't present them well, just as depressing are the bullshitters with the gift of the gab. There are plenty of people who are more inspirational than Mr Peterson.
“This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it."
Dorothy Parker.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 7467
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:20 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:12 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:14 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:19 am


Bad news for you about churches, synagogues and mosques, then.
Why? We know what they're like
Sorry if I was being a bit snappy, but Jordan Peterson really is just low grade reactionary self help. It isn't some dangerous forbidden knowledge, and the degree to which he's labelled as dangerous is out of proportion to what he does, and frankly, flatters him.
You're right that he's nothing new. Nevertheless, I do keep hoping that we don't have to repeat all the mistakes of the past. Infectious disease, trade wars and naked kleptocracy are quite enough to be getting on with, without far-right pseudo-intellectual narcissists recruiting isolated incels into some weird cult of personality.
You can shove your climate crisis up your arse!

Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door.

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Tessa K » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:53 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:20 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:12 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:14 pm


Why? We know what they're like
Sorry if I was being a bit snappy, but Jordan Peterson really is just low grade reactionary self help. It isn't some dangerous forbidden knowledge, and the degree to which he's labelled as dangerous is out of proportion to what he does, and frankly, flatters him.
You're right that he's nothing new. Nevertheless, I do keep hoping that we don't have to repeat all the mistakes of the past. Infectious disease, trade wars and naked kleptocracy are quite enough to be getting on with, without far-right pseudo-intellectual narcissists recruiting isolated incels into some weird cult of personality.
You're right, he's not exactly a world leader and most people haven't even heard of him. He just gets my goat.

Herainestold
Dorkwood
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Herainestold » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:27 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:53 am
You're right, he's not exactly a world leader and most people haven't even heard of him. He just gets my goat.
He's finished anyway. Nobody cares about him anymore. I doubt his book will be published.
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

EACLucifer
Dorkwood
Posts: 1026
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:44 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:53 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:20 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:12 pm


Sorry if I was being a bit snappy, but Jordan Peterson really is just low grade reactionary self help. It isn't some dangerous forbidden knowledge, and the degree to which he's labelled as dangerous is out of proportion to what he does, and frankly, flatters him.
You're right that he's nothing new. Nevertheless, I do keep hoping that we don't have to repeat all the mistakes of the past. Infectious disease, trade wars and naked kleptocracy are quite enough to be getting on with, without far-right pseudo-intellectual narcissists recruiting isolated incels into some weird cult of personality.
You're right, he's not exactly a world leader and most people haven't even heard of him. He just gets my goat.
That's more or less what I was getting at. I wouldn't call him far right, not by any meaningful standard of the word, just kinda...crap reactionary, like a lot of existing crap reactionaries.

And most of the people that have heard of him aren't online incels, they are just people who want a self-help book.

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3010
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by jimbob » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:03 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:44 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:53 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:20 pm


You're right that he's nothing new. Nevertheless, I do keep hoping that we don't have to repeat all the mistakes of the past. Infectious disease, trade wars and naked kleptocracy are quite enough to be getting on with, without far-right pseudo-intellectual narcissists recruiting isolated incels into some weird cult of personality.
You're right, he's not exactly a world leader and most people haven't even heard of him. He just gets my goat.
That's more or less what I was getting at. I wouldn't call him far right, not by any meaningful standard of the word, just kinda...crap reactionary, like a lot of existing crap reactionaries.

And most of the people that have heard of him aren't online incels, they are just people who want a self-help book.

Isn't that why he is a problem? He's dressed the old reactionary stuff up in new clothes - and putting his platitudes with right-wing ideology in front of a new market?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

Herainestold
Dorkwood
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Herainestold » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:21 pm

He is history. He doesn't teach any more. Nor does he have his private practise.
Some of his videos have been demonetized for being too controversial. His new book is unlikely to be published anywhere.

Jordan Who?
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

User avatar
Fishnut
After Pie
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Fishnut » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:23 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:21 pm
His new book is unlikely to be published anywhere.
Penguin Random House Canada say they're publishing it.
Four Penguin Random House Canada employees, who did not want to be named due to concerns over their employment, said the company held a town hall about the book Monday [23rd Nov], during which executives defended the decision to publish Peterson while employees cited their concerns about platforming someone who is popular in far-right circles...

In an email statement [they stated],
“We announced yesterday that we will publish Jordan Peterson’s new book Beyond Order this coming March..."

The Penguin Random House Canada employees said the company was secretive about releasing Peterson’s new book; one said the title didn’t appear in an internal database that normally includes all future books.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

Herainestold
Dorkwood
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Herainestold » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:39 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:23 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:21 pm
His new book is unlikely to be published anywhere.
Penguin Random House Canada say they're publishing it.
Four Penguin Random House Canada employees, who did not want to be named due to concerns over their employment, said the company held a town hall about the book Monday [23rd Nov], during which executives defended the decision to publish Peterson while employees cited their concerns about platforming someone who is popular in far-right circles...

In an email statement [they stated],
“We announced yesterday that we will publish Jordan Peterson’s new book Beyond Order this coming March..."

The Penguin Random House Canada employees said the company was secretive about releasing Peterson’s new book; one said the title didn’t appear in an internal database that normally includes all future books.
They are back pedalling in support of the book. It won't be published.
Get vaccinated. Wear your mask. Keep distancing. Test twice a week. Work from home. Don't mix households. Avoid crowds. Open your windows. Don't go dancing. Get your booster.

Post Reply