Brexit Consequences

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lpm
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by lpm » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:21 pm

The Customs language does not mean what you think it means.

The enforcement mechanism was a material change, however, as you say. It was the only material change.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

sheldrake
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:21 pm
The Customs language does not mean what you think it means.
I'm not sure what you think I think it means, but I would love to know what you think it means.

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lpm
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by lpm » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:29 pm

We discussed it endlessly at the other place. Feb 2018 was only 3.5 years ago. We've all got functioning memories.

Ambitious of you to try and gaslight us on something we were there for.

Our long running joke at the time was that everyone merely changed the ordering of sentences and changed the font, then pretended it was a new offer. Don't tell us you fell for it.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

sheldrake
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:29 pm
We discussed it endlessly at the other place. Feb 2018 was only 3.5 years ago. We've all got functioning memories.

Ambitious of you to try and gaslight us on something we were there for.

Our long running joke at the time was that everyone merely changed the ordering of sentences and changed the font, then pretended it was a new offer. Don't tell us you fell for it.
I'm sure you had a big stack of dismissive in-jokes just like exactly the group of sullen, greying sixth-formers in metal t-shirts that university-educated Labour voters tend to be, but I also think you're aware, at least on some level, that the consensus of the predictions from the other place didn't pan out very well.

I also think referring to jokes made in 2018 for something that wasn't created until summer 2020 (Johnson's proposed protocol) is a troll-slip I would not have expected of a brilliant mind like yours, LPM.

plodder
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:27 am

Perhaps the genius brain of Dominic Cummings can help us mere mortals

https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/statu ... 8783383554

sheldrake
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:46 am

plodder wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:27 am
Perhaps the genius brain of Dominic Cummings can help us mere mortals

https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/statu ... 8783383554
You know Cummings doesn't always tell the truth?

Lew Dolby
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Lew Dolby » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:11 am

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 pm
I'm sure you had a big stack of dismissive in-jokes just like exactly the group of sullen, greying sixth-formers in metal t-shirts that university-educated Labour voters tend to be,
You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

{tho' I'm not sure how a joke can be like a sixth-former]
Don't wrestle with pigs. You'll only get dirty and the pig will probably enjoy it !!!

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:47 am

Lew Dolby wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:11 am
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 pm
I'm sure you had a big stack of dismissive in-jokes just like exactly the group of sullen, greying sixth-formers in metal t-shirts that university-educated Labour voters tend to be,
You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

{tho' I'm not sure how a joke can be like a sixth-former]
Jacob would never make a grammatical error like mine, but I am wearing a monocle.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:01 pm


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dyqik
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by dyqik » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:49 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:11 am
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 pm
I'm sure you had a big stack of dismissive in-jokes just like exactly the group of sullen, greying sixth-formers in metal t-shirts that university-educated Labour voters tend to be,
You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

{tho' I'm not sure how a joke can be like a sixth-former]
I'm not sure how you can be a university-educated sixth-former.

sheldrake
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:52 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:49 pm
Lew Dolby wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:11 am
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 pm
I'm sure you had a big stack of dismissive in-jokes just like exactly the group of sullen, greying sixth-formers in metal t-shirts that university-educated Labour voters tend to be,
You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

{tho' I'm not sure how a joke can be like a sixth-former]
I'm not sure how you can be a university-educated sixth-former.
You know how Jeremy Corbyn never really grew out of a teenager rebel phase even though he's chronologically 72? like that but less extreme.

plodder
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:53 pm

There's nothing remotely adolescent about JC and his crowd, they were old men as children. If it's shouty posturing and youthful vigour you want, his moron brother is a better example.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by monkey » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:54 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:49 pm
Lew Dolby wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:11 am
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 pm
I'm sure you had a big stack of dismissive in-jokes just like exactly the group of sullen, greying sixth-formers in metal t-shirts that university-educated Labour voters tend to be,
You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

{tho' I'm not sure how a joke can be like a sixth-former]
I'm not sure how you can be a university-educated sixth-former.
He got the bit about metal T-shirts wrong too.

It's a punk band.

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dyqik
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by dyqik » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:56 pm

monkey wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:54 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:49 pm
Lew Dolby wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:11 am


You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

{tho' I'm not sure how a joke can be like a sixth-former]
I'm not sure how you can be a university-educated sixth-former.
He got the bit about metal T-shirts wrong too.

It's a punk band.
Brewery T-shirt in my case. I've also never voted for a Labour candidate at any level of government.

plodder
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:57 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:01 pm
Positive noises https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58871221

Let's see
Nothing on the ECJ so it's just flannel. A trusted trader scheme administered and overseen by the EU is hardly much of a concession.

sheldrake
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:00 pm

plodder wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:57 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:01 pm
Positive noises https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58871221

Let's see
Nothing on the ECJ so it's just flannel. A trusted trader scheme administered and overseen by the EU is hardly much of a concession.
Maybe that's good enough to make it work for people in Ireland though?

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:02 pm

Please move my childish joke about labour voters to the pit, I can have fun with it, but it shouldn't be here.

temptar
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by temptar » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:16 pm

It does not matter how sensible the EU is.

The UK negotiating position is to accept and renege, at best. It is pretty much all they have done to date.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:18 pm

temptar wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:16 pm
It does not matter how sensible the EU is.

The UK negotiating position is to accept and renege, at best. It is pretty much all they have done to date.
Do you think the current state of affairs in Northern Ireland is working well for the people of Northern Ireland (unionists included) ?

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Sciolus
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Sciolus » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:43 pm

Having the UK as part of the EU worked extremely well for the people of Northern Ireland. It made the GFA possible, for one thing among many. Probably why NI voted to remain.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:51 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:43 pm
Having the UK as part of the EU worked extremely well for the people of Northern Ireland. It made the GFA possible, for one thing among many. Probably why NI voted to remain.
The UK voted to leave. That horse has bolted and bolted and bolted and is sunning itself on a beach in the Caribbean. Justice Colton in Belfast also already ruled that the GFA was not contingent on NI remaining in the Customs Union.

The deal was signed with an understanding that it would be subject to democractic scrutiny in NI after 5 years, and that the EU would continue to work to protect the customs and political integrity of the UK, in particular respecting NIs wish to remain a part of the UK. The implementation of the protocol hasn't been supporting that. It seems like the EU is willing to make concessions in order to make this work better for the people of NI, so lets see.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by temptar » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:16 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:51 pm
Sciolus wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:43 pm
Having the UK as part of the EU worked extremely well for the people of Northern Ireland. It made the GFA possible, for one thing among many. Probably why NI voted to remain.
The UK voted to leave. That horse has bolted and bolted and bolted and is sunning itself on a beach in the Caribbean. Justice Colton in Belfast also already ruled that the GFA was not contingent on NI remaining in the Customs Union.

The deal was signed with an understanding that it would be subject to democractic scrutiny in NI after 5 years, and that the EU would continue to work to protect the customs and political integrity of the UK, in particular respecting NIs wish to remain a part of the UK. The implementation of the protocol hasn't been supporting that. It seems like the EU is willing to make concessions in order to make this work better for the people of NI, so lets see.
The deal was, iirc, signed at the end of last year. I don't think 5 years have passed and it didn't provide for the UK as a whole to try and break it less than a year later. Stop trying to exploit NI to alleviate the sh.t you shovelled yourself into.

NI has higher covid infection rates than Ireland. Apart from that, no fuel issues, no supermarket shelf issues similar to the UK's. There is generally strong support for the NIP apart from the DUP who belatedly realised that the Tory Party would sell out the unionist community again and again. And again. They are toys to each other at best.

The EU is willing to look at NI's interests because an EU member cares that they do. And Scotland are on about hearts and minds campaign atm too. But the Brexit interests beyond that are not the EU's concern. David Frost's speech in Lisbon yesterday should demonstrate to you just why central British interests are less of a concern. Your negotiators have been generally incompetent and obnoxious, playing to your tabloid media perception rather than economic reality.

At some point, if you want to sort this out, your country and government have to grow up.

It will take a while.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:21 pm

temptar wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:16 pm

The deal was, iirc, signed at the end of last year. I don't think 5 years have passed and it didn't provide for the UK as a whole to try and break it less than a year later. Stop trying to exploit NI to alleviate the sh.t you shovelled yourself into.
But the deal includes provisions for either side to invoke article 16 if they don't feel the other party is making 'best effort' to support the various goals of the deal. Frost has done just that, specifically to get a better arrangement working for the people of NI. It's not like he's doing this to ask the EU for a cash payment, or a new deal on financial services for London.
NI has higher covid infection rates than Ireland. Apart from that, no fuel issues, no supermarket shelf issues similar to the UK's.
Neither has Scotland or big chunks of England and Wales. This guff has been dealt with elsewhere.
Your negotiators have been generally incompetent and obnoxious, playing to your tabloid media perception rather than economic reality.

At some point, if you want to sort this out, your country and government have to grow up.

It will take a while.
I think they've been doing a great job, continually getting things that our own remainers and the EU press thought were unobtainable. Just remember who threatened to close the border between NI and the Republic; it wasn't us.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:26 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:02 pm
Please move my childish joke about labour voters to the pit, I can have fun with it, but it shouldn't be here.
I just did that, I think.

If you'd like the mods to do something the best thing is to report a post. We don't have time to read all the topics.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sheldrake » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:28 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:26 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:02 pm
Please move my childish joke about labour voters to the pit, I can have fun with it, but it shouldn't be here.
I just did that, I think.

If you'd like the mods to do something the best thing is to report a post. We don't have time to read all the topics.
Thank you. I didn't report it because it wasn't super urgent.

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