Brexit Consequences

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
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veravista
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by veravista » Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm

AM I right in thinking that the only reason the French are getting pissed off is because DEFRA couldn't (or wouldn't) get their sh.t together to issue the licences to Johny Foreigner? As agreed in De Pffiffles oven ready deal.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu May 06, 2021 12:46 pm

veravista wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm
AM I right in thinking that the only reason the French are getting pissed off is because DEFRA couldn't (or wouldn't) get their sh.t together to issue the licences to Johny Foreigner? As agreed in De Pffiffles oven ready deal.
It's not DEFRA - Jersey fisheries are devolved.

They're pissed off because the Jersey Buoys added extra unexpected requirements to the licence so some fishers have lost access to places where they used to fish, apparently.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by insignificant » Thu May 06, 2021 12:46 pm

veravista wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm
AM I right in thinking that the only reason the French are getting pissed off is because DEFRA couldn't (or wouldn't) get their sh.t together to issue the licences to Johny Foreigner? As agreed in De Pffiffles oven ready deal.
Nothing to do with DEFRA

Brexit / TCA has voided an existing fishing treaty ("Bay of Granville") between Jersey and France and the protests are about what has taken its place

There's a long history of gestures / protests like this one and although sending one patrol boat here to monitor this one might seem sensible, sending two and drawing lots of attention to that (instead of quietly telling one to just pop over, as it often does anyway) is just daft
Last edited by insignificant on Thu May 06, 2021 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Gfamily » Thu May 06, 2021 12:48 pm

veravista wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm
AM I right in thinking that the only reason the French are getting pissed off is because DEFRA couldn't (or wouldn't) get their sh.t together to issue the licences to Johny Foreigner? As agreed in De Pffiffles oven ready deal.
On the radio just now, someone was saying that the problem was that the French authorities weren't able to provide details of what the French fishing boats had done in previous years.
Since all licences were meant to be based on activities over the last 3 years, this is the reason why the licences issued don't match expectations.

Whether it's true or not,I doubt anyone can tell.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Thu May 06, 2021 1:06 pm

insignificant wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:46 pm
veravista wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm
AM I right in thinking that the only reason the French are getting pissed off is because DEFRA couldn't (or wouldn't) get their sh.t together to issue the licences to Johny Foreigner? As agreed in De Pffiffles oven ready deal.
Nothing to do with DEFRA

Brexit / TCA has voided an existing fishing treaty ("Bay of Granville") between Jersey and France and the protests are about what has taken its place

There's a long history of gestures / protests like this one and although sending one patrol boat here to monitor this one might seem sensible, sending two and drawing lots of attention to that (instead of quietly telling one to just pop over, as it often does anyway) is just daft
What is more ridiculous is using a military vessel for what is a law enforcement problem. Much more sensible to use the Border Force patrol boats. But then they probably wouldn't get headlines in the Sun on an election day ...

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by OffTheRock » Thu May 06, 2021 3:59 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:48 pm
veravista wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:30 pm
AM I right in thinking that the only reason the French are getting pissed off is because DEFRA couldn't (or wouldn't) get their sh.t together to issue the licences to Johny Foreigner? As agreed in De Pffiffles oven ready deal.
On the radio just now, someone was saying that the problem was that the French authorities weren't able to provide details of what the French fishing boats had done in previous years.
Since all licences were meant to be based on activities over the last 3 years, this is the reason why the licences issued don't match expectations.

Whether it's true or not,I doubt anyone can tell.
I think some of the French fishermen were under the impression they only needed to provide evidence of a minimum of 10 day’s fishing and not also a maximum number of days in a year that they’ve fished there. They definitely weren’t expecting to be issued licences restricting the number of days they could fish, what species they could fish and where they could and couldn’t fish.

If the blockade really needed extra patrol boats, both Jersey and Guernsey have fisheries protection law enforcement boats which could have been used.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by bmforre » Fri May 07, 2021 7:08 am

OffTheRock wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 3:59 pm
If the blockade really needed extra patrol boats, both Jersey and Guernsey have fisheries protection law enforcement boats which could have been used.
But they may not cry out in triumph The navy's here! so losing priceless propaganda effect.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by OffTheRock » Fri May 07, 2021 11:42 pm

That’s true.

Jersey fishing boats have now been banned from docking in Normandy, which is where most of them will land their catch. Obviously now the election is over Boris will be able to focus much more of his attention on the issue.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Allo V Psycho » Mon May 10, 2021 1:19 pm

WBA relegated. Damn shame, Sam, pity we weren't still in the EU, so you could have had some signings at the start of the year.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by monkey » Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm

So, about those freeports we were selling to the electorate last week...

clicky

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Mon May 10, 2021 6:55 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm
So, about those freeports we were selling to the electorate last week...

clicky
That’s normal for free ports. Not much to see here.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by monkey » Mon May 10, 2021 7:26 pm

I thought the whole point of them was to avoid tariffs post-Brexit. But the government has undermined that by not thinking about how their free trade agreements would work with them. Seems like a f.ck up to me.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon May 10, 2021 7:35 pm

From the link:
However, the government admitted businesses operating in freeports will need to pay tariffs when exporting finished products to any of the 23 countries where the UK has a post-Brexit trade deal, unlike companies operating elsewhere.

This is because the trade deals, negotiated as Britain prepared to leave the EU at the start of this year, include prohibition clauses preventing exporters who had benefited from duty exemption also benefiting from the preferential tariff rates set out in the trade agreements.

Although applying to countries accounting for £35.6bn of UK trade, the problem does not apply to the UK-EU trade deal.
So, countries can choose to avoid UK tax but pay tariffs exporting to some non-EU countries, or pay UK tax and have tariff-free exports to those places. I think. Seeing as most exports are to the EU it's presumably still going to be quite attractive.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Mon May 10, 2021 7:43 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:26 pm
I thought the whole point of them was to avoid tariffs post-Brexit. But the government has undermined that by not thinking about how their free trade agreements would work with them. Seems like a f.ck up to me.
Trade agreements attempt to prevent unfair advantage. That would occur if a company located in a free port were to import components at 0% tariff and then export finished goods, while all the other companies had to pay, say, 10% on the components.

The whole point of a free port is that its outside the national customs territory. In terms of customs it might as well be an offshore island. A company making use of the free port will also be outside the territory covered by the trade agreement.

Free ports existed in the UK from the 1980s until 2012 when they were shut down by David Cameron. People didn't notice because they didn't have a significant effect upon the economy.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Hunting Dog » Thu May 13, 2021 7:08 pm

so now, EU citizens who think they are legally coming for interviews are being locked up and expelled according to graun

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Allo V Psycho » Tue May 18, 2021 8:07 am

Front page story in the FT (so can't link). Australia insisting on a zero tariff trade deal with regard to farm products (and why shouldn't they? And who ever thought they wouldn't do?) But that then exposes British farmers to cheaper imported lamb and beef. Welsh and Scottish hill farmers, also now deprived of EU support, are likely to suffer disproportionately.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Tue May 18, 2021 8:45 am

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 8:07 am
Front page story in the FT (so can't link). Australia insisting on a zero tariff trade deal with regard to farm products (and why shouldn't they? And who ever thought they wouldn't do?) But that then exposes British farmers to cheaper imported lamb and beef. Welsh and Scottish hill farmers, also now deprived of EU support, are likely to suffer disproportionately.
Here it is:
The British government is locked in a “ferocious” internal battle over whether to sign off a trade deal with Australia after a split between the department of agriculture and the department of international trade over the terms of the agreement.

Two people with knowledge of internal discussions said ministers were divided over whether to grant tariff-free access to Australian farmers, which would risk a backlash from the UK farming industry — and potentially spark domestic political fallout.

Clinching a deal with Australia — the first big post-Brexit trade deal that is not a ‘rollover’ of existing agreements the UK enjoyed as an EU member — would be a symbolic moment for Brexiters arguing for the benefits of free trade.

The government announced in April that it was in a “sprint” to finalise the deal by June ahead of the G7 summit in Cornwall, which Australia’s prime minister Scott Morrison has been invited to attend as a guest.

People briefed on the internal discussions said Liz Truss, international trade secretary, regarded the issue as a “crunch point”. One government official said: “Liz argues that if you can’t get a good trade deal with Australia, who can you get one with?”

But she is meeting stiff opposition from George Eustice, the environment secretary, and Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, who have warned of the political fallout from a zero-tariff deal, the two insiders said.

Both camps admit they have no idea which way Boris Johnson will jump on the issue. “It’s the $100m question,” said one government official. Downing Street declined to comment.

One person with knowledge of the discussions said: “There is an absolutely ferocious row going on in Whitehall over the Australia deal with real pressure to get it resolved by the end of this week. Gove and Eustice are on one side, Truss and [Lord David] Frost on the other.”

UK officials said Australian and New Zealand negotiators were holding firm on demands for full tariff liberalisation, which Truss was under pressure to grant in order to meet the G7 deadline, perhaps phased in over a 10-year period.

But such a deal risks inflaming arguments over Scottish and Welsh independence because the likely impact of zero-tariff imports of Australian lamb and beef will land hardest in rural areas such as Scottish and Welsh hill farms.

Gove, a former UK environment minister who, when in office, pledged that UK farmers would be protected by tariffs in the event of a no-deal Brexit, is sensitive to the questions raised by Brexit over the future of the UK. One ally of Gove said: “Everyone is supporting Liz to get a great deal.”

The government estimates that a free trade agreement with Australia would be worth an additional 0.01-0.02 per cent of GDP over 15 years — or £200m-£500m more than 2018 levels. “Basically we’re talking about signing off the slow death of British farming so Liz Truss can score a quick political point,” said one insider opposed to the deal.

Truss is adamant that Britain should trade with Australia on similar “zero tariff, zero quota” terms to the deal the UK struck with the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/8c5f7a0c-6be ... 721dc08701

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Tue May 18, 2021 8:50 am

Similar issue with the lack of a fisheries agreement with Norway. Free trade sounds great until you work out which sectors would lose out.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue May 18, 2021 9:50 am

Yes, this is exactly what I've been talking about when I've been predicting rural abandonment in the wake of Brexit.

Hill farmers now are like coal miners in the 80s - an uneconomic industry dependent on public subsidies. I don't see the Conservatives wanting to keep that support going indefinitely. There are other things the land could be used for, such as carbon sequestration, which would enable big businesses to continue closer to normal for longer while the UK meets its international commitments on climate change. Perhaps accompanied by payments to landowners for the service, but tenant farmers will be shafted.

To protect those livelihoods we need long-term, big-picture planning. What's the vision for post-Brexit UK? What's the vision for the countryside? What's the strategy for tackling the land-use components of the climate emergency?

I don't see benefits-scrounging lamb fitting into any of those things.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by veravista » Tue May 18, 2021 9:57 am

Can't we just do what we normally do? Sign up and renege on it in a couple of weeks?

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Tue May 18, 2021 9:58 am

The land will just be used as private gardens for the mega affluent.

The idea that we keep subsiding sheep in the UK is bonkers, they are hugely counter-productive to all sorts of important metrics.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Tue May 18, 2021 10:20 am

plodder wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 9:58 am
The land will just be used as private gardens for the mega affluent.

The idea that we keep subsiding sheep in the UK is bonkers, they are hugely counter-productive to all sorts of important metrics.
The thing is though, that even in Scotland and Wales, the areas with most sheep have Conservative MPs. Sheep farming involves few people but because its spread out over a very wide area it can potentially get a lot more political support than, say, an industry that's concentrated in a small number of constituencies.

Add to that worries about Scottish and even Welsh independence and there is a recipe for the pork to keep flowing.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Little waster » Tue May 18, 2021 10:24 am

In other news

The typically underwhelming Frost (pictured yesterday) hopes that EU won't react to being slapped in the face with a wet fish by slapping the UK in the face with a fish in return because that wouldn't be in any (well ... his) best interests.

He then pranced around the room waving a mackerel while warning the the EU that resorting to such infantile piscine antics would gravely imperil the Pancake Tuesday Accords on Stretching Monty Python Analogies Well Beyond Breaking Point.

He posed for the cameras before concluding that it was time that the EU stopped all the petty point-scoring and political posturing for its domestic audience and finally deliver the 350m unicorns a week his boss had solemnly promised the stupider half of the British electorate while spending circa 33 femtoseconds considering how Brexit might impact the GFA.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue May 18, 2021 10:26 am

plodder wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 9:58 am
The land will just be used as private gardens for the mega affluent.

The idea that we keep subsiding sheep in the UK is bonkers, they are hugely counter-productive to all sorts of important metrics.
A lot of it is within national parks and AOANBs etc - there's a chance the UK might sort out its legislation on those designations, so that they manage land for conservation instead of aesthetics. I can't image many mega affluent are enormously bothered about having a private garden 50 miles from their country house on the other side of a big hill.

The biggest obstacle to that kind of change would be the grouse c.nts, but I guess the gov could just write in some loophole about "protecting traditional industries".

Agree with your last sentence completely - bonkers is the word.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Fishnut » Tue May 18, 2021 10:34 am

An unintended Brexit consequence - a surge in scammers taking advantage of unexpected postage charges,
Scams making use of delivery firms’ names are not new, but the online shopping boom – and confusion over new fees that have come in since the Brexit transition period ended on 31 December – have given fraudsters a bigger pool of potential victims to phish in... Texts had claimed to be from Royal Mail, Hermes, DPD and DHL, with similar messages involving an unpaid fee that needed to be met before a second delivery attempt could be made.
Though I've got to say Royal Mail really aren't helping customers with this confusing mess of contact methods and payment requests,
A spokesperson says the company will only send email and SMS notifications “in cases where the sender has requested this when using our trackable products that offer this service”. Royal Mail adds: “In cases where customers need to pay a surcharge for an underpaid item, we would let them know by leaving a grey ‘fee to pay’ card. We would not request payment by email or text. The only time we would ask customers to make a payment by email or by text is in some instances where a customs fee is due. In such cases, we would also leave a grey card telling customers that there’s a fee to pay before we can release the item.”
The TL:DR seems to be that if you don't get a grey card through your letterbox but do get a text the text is fraudulent but ffs, don't say "we don't ask for payment by text or email, except in these instances when we do" and then be surprised when people get scammed :roll:
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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