Brexit Consequences

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Brightonian
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Brightonian » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:57 pm


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Little waster
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Little waster » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:23 pm

Ah the retreat to Autarky.

I think history has taught us that is always the sign of an open, confident, outward-facing nation on the up and not the desperate last-gasp attempt of a failing state trying to prevent their country imploding.

Before you know it we’ll be making coffee out of acorns and kerosene out of pine tree roots.

Or as this highly scientific graph demonstrates:-

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:02 pm

I dunno. I live where there's fishing and it's gutting seeing all our fantastic seafood being loaded onto lorries for sale in the EU. If it means UK supermarkets sell more fresh fish then great - we do need educating.

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Cardinal Fang
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Cardinal Fang » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:56 pm

There are so many lovely types of seafood caught in UK waters, but unfortunately unless you happen to live near a decent fishmonger you're never going to see them. Your only options are normally what your local supermarket chooses to sell, which is never going to be things like Spider Crabs and Megrim Sole

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Herainestold » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:09 pm

In the long run this could work out if we have easy access to more British seafood. It might require some deft marketing, where it sounds like some exotic foreign import. Consuming locally will be a plus for the environment as well.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Little waster » Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:55 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:09 pm
In the long run this could work out if we have easy access to more British seafood. It might require some deft marketing, where it sounds like some exotic foreign import. Consuming locally will be a plus for the environment as well.
But even then we run into a double problem:-

1. For all the bluster about fish and chips and jellied eels as a nation we are actually fairly indifferent to seafood overall.

2. Spider crab and megrim sole have freely available in the UK for centuries(?) the fact it almost entirely goes for export shows for whatever reason it hasn't appealed to the British palate in recent decades.

Now I hope the rebranding works as best it can however ...
Each year about 1,000 tonnes of megrim sole is brought into Newlyn, Cornwall's biggest fish market, with 98% exported.

About 85% of spider crab is exported, mainly to Spain.
... is a lot of unwanted fish and crabmeat that we are hoping the British public can swallow.

We've tried that before with limited success.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:18 pm

Nah, that's bollocks. Those amazing prawns you get in the restaurants on the med? They're from Scotland. We love seafood when we're abroad, it's nothing to do with the British palate, whatever the hell that means. I do think we're pretty nervous about buying and cooking it, but that's partly cos you can't buy the stuff.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Little waster » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:42 pm

plodder wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:18 pm
Nah, that's bollocks. Those amazing prawns you get in the restaurants on the med? They're from Scotland. We love seafood when we're abroad, it's nothing to do with the British palate, whatever the hell that means. I do think we're pretty nervous about buying and cooking it, but that's partly cos you can't buy the stuff.
If only there was a more scientific way of assessing how much seafood the British eat in comparison to other countries than what plodder reckons he had on holiday once.

Oh there is.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fish ... per-capita

Drilling down into just Europe we get (in kg/person/year, 2017 figures):-

Iceland 90.71 kg
Portugal 56.84 kg
Norway 51.35 kg
Spain 42.47 kg
France 34.37 kg
Finland 33.62 kg
Lithuania 33.09 kg
Sweden 32.81 kg
Luxembourg 32.15 kg
Malta 31.90 kg
Italy 29.80 kg
Cyprus 24.94 kg
Latvia 24.86 kg
Ireland 23.43 kg
Belgium 23.01 kg
Denmark 22.70 kg
Netherlands 21.77 kg
United Kingdom 19.73 kg
Greece 19.44 kg
Croatia 18.74 kg
Switzerland 16.94 kg
Belarus 16.28 kg
Estonia 14.72 kg
Austria 14.09 kg
Montenegro 14.06 kg
Germany 12.75 kg
Slovenia 11.96 kg
Ukraine 11.67 kg
Moldova 11.58 kg
Poland 10.69 kg
Slovakia 9.70 kg
Czechia 9.31 kg
Bulgaria 7.05 kg
Hungary 6.30 kg
Serbia 6.18 kg
Romania 5.96 kg
Albania 5.36 kg
Bosnia and Herzegovina 4.89 kg


So there we go we pip such renowned seafood gourmands as Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia.

Or perhaps we don't like cooking it and can't get it like a bunch of 1940s housewives waving their ration books.

If only there had been some sort cooking renaissance in the UK in recent decades where we learnt to experiment with novel ways of cooking and new foods and some sort of dedicated seafood counter in every supermarket in the country.
Last edited by Little waster on Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Gfamily » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:47 pm

I've picked up from somewhere the idea that, from isotope analysis of Iron Age bodies, it seems that between the Bronze Age and the coming of the Romans, Britain basically didn't eat fish.

I'm not sure I have seen much in the way of an authoritative reference for this though.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Blackcountryboy » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:05 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:47 pm
I've picked up from somewhere the idea that, from isotope analysis of Iron Age bodies, it seems that between the Bronze Age and the coming of the Romans, Britain basically didn't eat fish.

I'm not sure I have seen much in the way of an authoritative reference for this though.
My understanding is fish was hardly eaten in this country, away from the coast, until the arrival of the railways. With no method of keeping it cold it didn't keep long enough to transport it far by horse and cart.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by veravista » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:09 pm

I reckon me and Mrs V have probably got well past that measly 19 kg last year, because, against all odds we have a brilliant fish monger right here in the heart of the East Mids. The problem is that for the exotica it's just stupid expensive.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Gfamily » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:28 pm

Blackcountryboy wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:05 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:47 pm
I've picked up from somewhere the idea that, from isotope analysis of Iron Age bodies, it seems that between the Bronze Age and the coming of the Romans, Britain basically didn't eat fish.

I'm not sure I have seen much in the way of an authoritative reference for this though.
My understanding is fish was hardly eaten in this country, away from the coast, until the arrival of the railways. With no method of keeping it cold it didn't keep long enough to transport it far by horse and cart.
Our local abbey had a fish lake by late medieval times, and the subsequent Country House had an Ice House built, which allowed for Ice to be stored from winter into summer - though that wouldn't have helped with transporting fish inland.

It's an interesting question though, whether the English reformation have made it less important to have supply lines for fish on Fridays?

Though there's no specific mention in this brief history of aquatic resource use in medieval Europe
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:52 pm

Pfft. I grew up near Ely. British palate my arse.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Grumble » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:01 pm

I’ve never been massively bothered about eating fish, though it is nice. My brother works in the fish industry as well, so I probably should care more.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Little waster » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:11 pm

plodder wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:52 pm
Pfft. I grew up near Ely. British palate my arse.
Well that explains it, the fen dwellers are about three-quarters merfolk, one quarter turnip.

People who were born above sea level are more discerning in what they eat hence black pudding and saveloy dips.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Fishnut » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:18 pm

Historically we ate a lot of freshwater fish but that seems to have largely stopped. I suspect a combination of reduced populations and polluted waterways put people off and even though there are recoveries for both, the taste for them has been lost. This piece suggests that a lack of certainty of the legality of freshwater fishing also puts people off catching their own, while many fishing clubs have catch-and-release policies.

A quick google also revealed that a decade ago the likes of Hugh Fernley-Whittingstall and Jamie Oliver were trying to encourage people to eat more British fish. Given the statistics provided by LW, it looks like that campaign was largely unsuccessful so I don't hold out much hope for this rebranding.

Rather unsurprisingly, I ate a lot of fish when I was in the Falklands as I'd get it free from work (once we'd finished dissecting them) but I barely eat any now. After you've had a deep freeze full of Chilean seabass it's hard to get used to having to pay for it again. Plus the things I've heard about the Marine Stewardship Council makes me unconvinced that their seal of approval means much.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by dyqik » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:07 am

plodder wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:52 pm
Pfft. I grew up near Ely. British palate my arse.
I grew up surrounded by Eastbourne's fish and chip shops, and didn't eat seafood until I moved to the US.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:05 am

Since I moved to Portugal I've had to translate menus a lot for visiting friends. I don't eat meat though, so when I tell them something is a "golden-headed bream" or "black scabbard fish" or whatever it doesn't mean much.

Most of the British popular seafood species are on the red list now, so none of it's very sustainable. I doubt Tory-run fisheries are going to be any better

The charts seem to support plodders point - popular UK holiday destinations are big fish eaters, and British folk seem to enjoy that stuff abroad, but it's not widely consumed in the UK.

None of it's ever appealed to me so you're welcome to it.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by bmforre » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:30 am

You're a bird who doesn't eat meat. Presumably insects don't count?

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by nezumi » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:09 pm

I doubt I've eaten 19 kg of seafood in my entire life. Can't abide it.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by FlammableFlower » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:42 pm

I'm with fishnut - historically we ate quite a bit of fish. I used to live in Fishponds, Bristol - small hint on what went on there. Over time this has atrophied with a combination of dwindling fishmongers and the skills in cooking fish, which in turn leads to less familiarity so less demand in restaurants. The few things we eat are the "easiest" to both cook/prepare and on the palate. Going abroad and having fish there doesn't translate into doing the same back home. Growing up with a dad who did go fishing, to catch to eat, meant I probably had slightly more exposure to fish - especially trout, mackerel and sea bass (depending on whether it was reservoir or sea fishing he'd been doing). Still remember the kitchen sink full of fish in the evening some weekends.

About 15 years ago there was an old chap in a little van who was a travelling fishmonger and would stop by every Tuesday and we'd see what he had this week, but he's long retired. The nearest fishmongers is several miles away. It means the variety of fish available is very limited.

There could be a change to more eating of fish, but it's going to take time and a lack of cheaper alternatives before that starts happening...

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by plodder » Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:47 pm

I’m lucky in that regard, Hastings is stuffed full of fishmongers including huts where you can buy unfilleted fish dirt cheap straight from the boats. Our nearest town also has fish retail and wholesalers, my village has a secret fishmonger in someone’s garage and there are a few seafood snack shacks dotted around as well. The British people round here seem to love the stuff.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Cardinal Fang » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:24 pm

I'd eat way more seafood if I could get it. But when your choice is limited to frozen (imported) prawns, and rubbery 3-day old salmon or cod or dyed yellow who-knows-what all in plastic packets in the supermarket, then it's rather unappealing.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by malbui » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:41 pm

nezumi wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:09 pm
I doubt I've eaten 19 kg of seafood in my entire life. Can't abide it.
I could probably get through 19kg a week if I put my mind to it #scallops #filetsdeperche #bacalhau
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by malbui » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:43 pm

Still no British produce in Carrefour, by the way. Nor over the border in the Swiss supermarkets, although the ease of international commerce with Switzerland seemed to be a given.
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