Brexit Consequences

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Hunting Dog
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Hunting Dog » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:46 pm

veravista wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:21 pm
Hahahahahahahahahhaha


https://global247news.com/2021/03/26/te ... F_ECyquyF4
I wouldn't laugh at everyone affected by that, but for
Another returning at Malaga airport today was <snip> who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ” Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this, my application has been rejected and we are on our way home – the wife is in tears, she’s distraught if I’m honest and I’m not too happy at the prospect of returning back to the UK.
definitely haahahahaha, but I wish we didn't have to let the a..eh.le back in!

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:21 pm

bjn wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:43 pm
veravista wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:21 pm
Hahahahahahahahahhaha

https://global247news.com/2021/03/26/te ... F_ECyquyF4
I'm happy to laugh at the Brexit voters being chucked out, but I'm curious as to the reasons the Spanish have turned down applications to remain. Some folks will probably have be caught up by that without being Two-World-Wars-And-One-World-Cup types.
I think it's important to remember that the majority, quite likely the vast majority, of British people who live in the EU did not vote for Brexit. It annoys me a bit when the press dredge up the worst Brexit-supporting moron in a football shirt

The main reason why people will have been turned down, by Spain anyway, is that they had to be "legally resident" in Spain by the end of December 2020. And for anyone who arrived before about the middle of 2020, that meant they should have applied for residency a lot f.cking earlier. An an EU citizen, if you move to Spain you are meant to submit your application for residency within three months of arriving. There is lots and lots of leeway on this, especially with COVID, but you are expected to make a good-faith attempt before the end of your first full year, if only because you probably told your previous country's tax authorities that you'd moved and you're expected to pay tax somewhere.

There are people (cf. also posts by Opti passim) who have been here 10 or 20 years, never got a NIE number(*), and so never paid tax or NI or registered or got an ITV (MOT) for their car. They used an EHIC for their medical cover and if anything bad happened they could fly back to Blighty and return with no checks of their passport.

However, there are real human dramas here. Some of the people involved are getting on a bit, and the Spanish bureaucracy is difficult to navigate even for Spanish people. And yes, many of the Brits don't speak much Spanish, but it turns out that moving to another country is hard. Do you think it's a good thing that a hospital in a large UK city will have interpreters for elderly Asian patients who only speak Urdu or Gujarati? Yes? So do I. Now ask what's available for Brits who move to Spain age 60 and never had learning a foreign language on their agenda either. (Again, of course, the racist ones, the ones who voted for Brexit because "This [sic] country is overrun with imigrunts" can f.ck right off, but they are a minority; they just make for excellent entertainment on TV.)

The situation is quite different in France, which never implemented legislation in line with directive 2004/38/EC and has always allowed EU citizens to just show up and start living there. France, like the UK but unlike most other EU countries, has no great tradition of an efficient population register (it's the only major EU country that still runs a census) and so was happy to not require EU citizens to register. So if you've been in France since 2010 without ever going to a police station to register, that's not a huge deal; you will normally have come onto the radar of the tax people one way or another and been basically "en règle".


(*) Everyone has a national ID number in Spain. It's assigned at birth for citizens or when you first need one to function in the country for immigrants; quite a few English football fans have been given one over the years because the police assign you one when they arrest you. It ought to be Orwellian, and of course it was invented by Franco, but in practice its a marvellous way of avoiding ambiguity, because there's a lot of people called Maria Gonzales about.
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nezumi
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by nezumi » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:42 pm

Yes it's in three threads. But it deserves it. It's the funniest thing I'd heard since 2016.
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veravista
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by veravista » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:39 pm

From the article

The Spanish dream is over for me, it’s time to go back to Cardiff, it’s been a blast but the new regulations have made it impossible to stay, I don’t have enough credentials to become a resident, it was so easy before, get your funds in from the UK, do a bit of cash in hand around the likes of Benidorm and bob was your uncle, but that’s all changed now

A bit like them Poles coming to the UK working in a car wash? All cash, don't pay tax etc etc

Hahahahahafuckingha

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:49 pm

veravista wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:39 pm
the new regulations have made it impossible to stay, I don’t have enough credentials to become a resident
Anthony is talking b.llsh.t here, of course.

The only "credentials" that you needed to be resident in Spain under EU rules were (a) modest financial resources --- a job paying €800 a month, a UK state pension, or ~€8k in the bank; and (b) health coverage, which in most cases was either cover in the Spanish system because you were paying Spanish social security contributions as a deduction from your wages, or for UK pensioners an S1 form. A few people had private medical cover, which for a fit 35-year-old would be about €50 a month, but even the self-employed mostly go for registered sole trader ("autonomó") status, which also gets you into the system and is good value as long as you work 30 hours a week or so.

And that same deal was available, under the Withdrawal Agreement, for anyone who was legally living in Spain on 31 December 2020. So basically he either wanted to continue to work cash in hand, or they caught him doing so. Before Brexit the Spanish authorities were reluctant to deport EU citizens even when they caught them not registering, because it's not great optics generally, but now they will be having very little compunction.

What has changed is that if you want to move to Spain now, you are going to have to jump through a lot of visa-shaped hoops. To work you will need either (a) a job offer from a local company who will have to certify that they first tried and failed to find an EU (read: Spanish) citizen with the right qualifications and experience --- good luck with that with 16% unemployment --- or (b) a business plan for your self-employment, which will have to explain what unique value you will add to the Spanish economy and why you have to live in Spain to provide that (so freelance proofreading for a company in London won't cut it, nor will "I'm going to provide wellness training to other expats"). And to move as a retiree you will need to show €34k annual income (cash coming into the bank) for five years, and on that deal you can't do any work or consultancy, even for one hour per year.
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veravista
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by veravista » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:04 pm

This provided even more lols to me

"Spain’s police force and authorities are expecting to deport 500 UK citizens within the first week, with targets already earmarked to be picked up and deported home, knowingly to the authorities not having the correct paperwork to remain."

Fancy that, the Spanish authorities know who they are going after - shame we couldn't do that in the UK

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:47 pm

veravista wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:04 pm
This provided even more lols to me

"Spain’s police force and authorities are expecting to deport 500 UK citizens within the first week, with targets already earmarked to be picked up and deported home, knowingly to the authorities not having the correct paperwork to remain."

Fancy that, the Spanish authorities know who they are going after - shame we couldn't do that in the UK
Well, presumably a lot of these will be people who have made failed residency applications. The ones who are still under the radar will be outed over the coming months and years, as they make a run for the border to go back to the UK for whatever reason. I expect a bit of trade of knowledge of where is the best place to leave Schengen without too many questions being answered. From Malaga to the Ukrainian border is quite a drive.
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Opti
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Opti » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:36 am

A fair number of refused applications are related to people not having private health insurance prior to 31/12/20. It was no use having a policy that started 1/1/21, to be living in Spain legally under EU regs, you needed cover before the transition period ended.
There has been a lot of EHIC abuse going on.
All this information has been available for at least a year, people just haven't been paying attention.
There are a few I feel very sorry for, but most of them should have been aware of the impending issues.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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malbui
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by malbui » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:19 am

I have no sympathy at all for those who've been trying to hide under the radar for years and are finally being caught out.

I don't want to present myself as a paragon of virtue when all I am is law-abiding, but I got my first residence permit for living abroad when I was 20 and for all but six years of my adult life I've needed a residence permit, a work permit, or both. It can be a pain in the arse to go through the process for the first time, sure, but it makes life simpler and it's a sign of respect to your host country.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by cvb » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:17 am

Hunting Dog wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:46 pm
veravista wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:21 pm
Hahahahahahahahahhaha


https://global247news.com/2021/03/26/te ... F_ECyquyF4
I wouldn't laugh at everyone affected by that, but for
Another returning at Malaga airport today was <snip> who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ” Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this, my application has been rejected and we are on our way home – the wife is in tears, she’s distraught if I’m honest and I’m not too happy at the prospect of returning back to the UK.
definitely haahahahaha, but I wish we didn't have to let the a..eh.le back in!
I know he would be in the minority but what a f.cktard that man is.

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Fishnut
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Fishnut » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:17 pm

Hunting Dog wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:46 pm
veravista wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:21 pm
Hahahahahahahahahhaha


https://global247news.com/2021/03/26/te ... F_ECyquyF4
I wouldn't laugh at everyone affected by that, but for
Another returning at Malaga airport today was <snip> who despite voting for Britain to leave the EU, didn’t believe it would end his Spanish lifestyle, he said: ” Yes I voted out, but I didn’t realise it would come to this, my application has been rejected and we are on our way home – the wife is in tears, she’s distraught if I’m honest and I’m not too happy at the prospect of returning back to the UK.
definitely haahahahaha, but I wish we didn't have to let the a..eh.le back in!
I rather liked the last comment from Malaga man,
"long term I think the Spanish will regret chucking us out of Spain”
Yeah mate, sure they will
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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shpalman
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by shpalman » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:57 pm

Spanish government sources have lamented what they say are misleading reports in UK media suggesting they will be “deporting” or “kicking out” 500 British nationals in the coming days.
The Guardian understands that police will not be deployed to search for British over-stayers, but that anyone staying longer than 90 days will be considered to be in an irregular situation and will be subject to the law if they are picked up at a control point.

British nationals living in Spain before 31 December are entitled to remain in the country permanently under the Brexit deal and have until 30 June to register their residency.
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Opti
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Opti » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:34 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:57 pm
Spanish government sources have lamented what they say are misleading reports in UK media suggesting they will be “deporting” or “kicking out” 500 British nationals in the coming days.
The Guardian understands that police will not be deployed to search for British over-stayers, but that anyone staying longer than 90 days will be considered to be in an irregular situation and will be subject to the law if they are picked up at a control point.

British nationals living in Spain before 31 December are entitled to remain in the country permanently under the Brexit deal and have until 30 June to register their residency.
They have to have been legally living in Spain before 31/12/20. Some areas are being very, errrr, legalistic about what that means.
As I said previously, qualifying healthcare is a real issue in some regions.

No, of course the Guardia aren't 'rounding up' Brits ... but anyone who comes into contact with the PoPo from now on is likely to get caught out.
Roadblocks are not that infrequent, especially here on the Costa del Narcos.
He cannot be killed by conventional weapons. True. He and Mrs Opti are wicked cool.

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veravista
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by veravista » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:42 pm

I had an interesting chat with an old mate of mine at the weekend who lives in Murcia, he's been there for 30 odd years (all legal but he's also got an Irish passport) and runs a English school there. A few weeks ago he was approached by someone who lives in the La Manga golf complex asking for help to navigate the complexities of being able to stay in Spain. He lives in a large property, rent free in exchange for looking after two others, all owned by a Gibralter/BVI company not unconnected to his son and in no way any sort of tax fiddle. All the relevant bills and services are paid through the company so he is basically invisible to the authorities - apart from the new UK registered cars that appear every couple of years which he is allowed to use he probably wouldn't have been found - the police have been targeting UK regs around the course complex. He asked my friend if he'd go with him to a Spanish solicitor to see if he could persuade them to let him stay, as although he's lived there for over 20 years he can't speak a word of Spanish much beyond beer, please and thank you!

Good old Duncan advised him he's got no chance whatsoever.

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by sTeamTraen » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:36 pm

Opti wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:36 am
A fair number of refused applications are related to people not having private health insurance prior to 31/12/20. It was no use having a policy that started 1/1/21, to be living in Spain legally under EU regs, you needed cover before the transition period ended.
There has been a lot of EHIC abuse going on.
All this information has been available for at least a year, people just haven't been paying attention.
There are a few I feel very sorry for, but most of them should have been aware of the impending issues.
That seems to be unclear. There are some appeals going on about this. I'm not sure what the logic is (on the face of it, everyone should have had all their ducks in a row on 2020-12-31) but presumably it's not as open-and-shut as that. Watch this space...
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Woodchopper
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:47 am


Britons in France could lose driving licences due to post-Brexit impasse

Thousands face not having a valid permit after lack of deal between UK and France and flood of applications

Thousands of British citizens in France have been left without a valid driving licence, or face losing theirs within months, because of bureaucratic overload and the failure of the two countries’ governments to sign a post-Brexit reciprocal agreement.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... SApp_Other

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Grumble
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Grumble » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:01 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:47 am

Britons in France could lose driving licences due to post-Brexit impasse

Thousands face not having a valid permit after lack of deal between UK and France and flood of applications

Thousands of British citizens in France have been left without a valid driving licence, or face losing theirs within months, because of bureaucratic overload and the failure of the two countries’ governments to sign a post-Brexit reciprocal agreement.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... SApp_Other
Now that is hard luck on those caught out. No suggestion they’ve been doing anything they shouldn’t have unlike the dodgy tax dodgers on the costas.
I know this is vitriol, no solution, spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don’t you?

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Woodchopper
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:44 am

Grumble wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:01 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:47 am

Britons in France could lose driving licences due to post-Brexit impasse

Thousands face not having a valid permit after lack of deal between UK and France and flood of applications

Thousands of British citizens in France have been left without a valid driving licence, or face losing theirs within months, because of bureaucratic overload and the failure of the two countries’ governments to sign a post-Brexit reciprocal agreement.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... SApp_Other
Now that is hard luck on those caught out. No suggestion they’ve been doing anything they shouldn’t have unlike the dodgy tax dodgers on the costas.
The ones in the report have been acting legally.

That said, and speaking as a migrant, its a good idea to get your license swapped over to that of your host country if you're resident there and are regularly driving. The ones who've been resident in France for several years might have been a bit lazy or complacent.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by shpalman » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:16 am

Officially you're supposed to do it within a year, in Italy at least.
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by veravista » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:25 am

I seem to recall it was within 12 months in the UK, as a Dutch friend of mine found out a few years ago when he just had a motorcycle.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:38 am

Fair enough, if so most of the people just weren’t driving legally.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by Gfamily » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:33 am

veravista wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:25 am
I seem to recall it was within 12 months in the UK, as a Dutch friend of mine found out a few years ago when he just had a motorcycle.
According to the DVLA, if now a UK resident you can drive on a EU licence until age 70 - unless you only got your EU licence by exchanging a non EU licence, in which case you need to pass the tests.

If you have a non-EU licence, you need to exchange it after 12 month's residence - this can be a UK licence if was from certain countries. Other countries' licences require you to pass the tests
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by headshot » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:48 am

Frau HS has used her German licence since 1997.

She was given a UK paper counterpart in 2008 when she picked up three points for speeding.

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bjn
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by bjn » Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:05 am

veravista wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:25 am
I seem to recall it was within 12 months in the UK, as a Dutch friend of mine found out a few years ago when he just had a motorcycle.
Yep. When I moved to the U.K. I had to swap Oz driving license for a U.K. one within a year.

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bolo
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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by bolo » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:55 pm

A year seems quite generous. If you move to Virginia from another U.S. state you have to switch over your driver's license within 60 days.

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