US 2021 Capitol insurrection

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:45 pm

Hmmmm

From Bob Woodward’s “Rage”

“I have built a nuclear—a weapons system that nobody’s ever had in this country before,” Trump said in this interview. “We have stuff that you haven’t even seen or heard about. We have stuff that Putin and Xi have never heard about before. There’s nobody—what we have is incredible.”
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dyqik
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by dyqik » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:26 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:33 pm
dyqik wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:39 pm
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:51 pm


He and his family have Secret Service protection so they’re never going to prison although with a bit of luck we could get house arrest.
Eh?

The secret service have to obey the law, just like everyone else. And the secret service protection can be withdrawn.
Not according to all the lawyers I heard discussing this on MSNBC but I claim no expertise

ETA the kids may not be safe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act
If a judge orders him to report to jail, then the secret service will have to follow him there.

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bolo
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by bolo » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:42 am

The FPA, as amended, appears at 18 USC 3056, which says, in part:
Under the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security, the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect the following persons: ... (3) Former Presidents and their spouses for their lifetimes, except that protection of a spouse shall terminate in the event of remarriage.
(4) Children of a former President who are under 16 years of age. ...
I don't know whether "is authorized to" legally implies "is required to". It doesn't look like it would, but possibly the lawyers on MSNBC know that it does, or possibly they are just making sh.t up.

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:50 am

n00b question re:stealing documents

Did the Trump-era USA really have documents that could be physically stolen, ie exist in single copies vulnerable to being (for sake of example) bogwashed? Or do they have digital backups?

In the latter case, it sounds like the warning against storing my library books in an electronic data retrieval system. But a useful broad net to search the safe of an obviously guilty c.nt. (And you still shouldn't necessarily do it, even if unauthorized copying isn't theft.)
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by dyqik » Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:07 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:50 am
n00b question re:stealing documents

Did the Trump-era USA really have documents that could be physically stolen, ie exist in single copies vulnerable to being (for sake of example) bogwashed? Or do they have digital backups?

In the latter case, it sounds like the warning against storing my library books in an electronic data retrieval system. But a useful broad net to search the safe of an obviously guilty c.nt. (And you still shouldn't necessarily do it, even if unauthorized copying isn't theft.)
I doubt that there are any documents that would go to Trump that weren't kept as copies, including electronic copies. The crime is in removing copies from secured facilities rather than in preventing the government from accessing the information.

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:45 am

jimbob wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:24 pm
What did they have on Macron?
A deadly serious incident that could cause a terrible scandal - his mistress walked in on him making love to his wife.

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:47 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:50 am
n00b question re:stealing documents

Did the Trump-era USA really have documents that could be physically stolen, ie exist in single copies vulnerable to being (for sake of example) bogwashed? Or do they have digital backups?

In the latter case, it sounds like the warning against storing my library books in an electronic data retrieval system. But a useful broad net to search the safe of an obviously guilty c.nt. (And you still shouldn't necessarily do it, even if unauthorized copying isn't theft.)
I think the concern is that these are very sensitive documents (I believe some were actually marked Top Secret), and that he - at best - risked them falling into the wrong hands and exposing information that only be available to a limited number of people with the right clearances.

I wonder what happens if it turned out he took copies of the physical documents at some point after he stole them?

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 am

It's worth noting that the argument various Trumpists are using - that maybe he declassified them and didn't tell anyone - already has precedent against it in court. During his COVID-fueled extra weird tweeting spree just before the election, he tweeted about declassifying a bunch of stuff. When journos - can't remember which publication - used that to seek something sensitive - I think the unredacted Mueller report but don't quote me on that - it was held he hadn't declassified things just by saying he had on Twitter. Pretty sure that covers the idea of him doing it and just not telling anyone.

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by jimbob » Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:20 am

Just a big fat nothing

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 5004128264
Julia Davis
@JuliaDavisNews

Meanwhile in Russia: Putin's mouthpieces on state TV are taunting America about "Top Secret" documents sought during the raid of Trump's estate, which they claim had to do with the newest nuclear weapons developed by the US and gleefully imply that Moscow already got to see them.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:46 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 am
It's worth noting that the argument various Trumpists are using - that maybe he declassified them and didn't tell anyone - already has precedent against it in court. During his COVID-fueled extra weird tweeting spree just before the election, he tweeted about declassifying a bunch of stuff. When journos - can't remember which publication - used that to seek something sensitive - I think the unredacted Mueller report but don't quote me on that - it was held he hadn't declassified things just by saying he had on Twitter. Pretty sure that covers the idea of him doing it and just not telling anyone.
If Trump secretly telepathically declassified them before leaving office it’s ok because Biden secretly telepathically reclassified them on attaining the Presidency..

Anyway none of the charges against him required documentation to be classified to land him in the sh.t.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by jimbob » Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:48 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:46 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 am
It's worth noting that the argument various Trumpists are using - that maybe he declassified them and didn't tell anyone - already has precedent against it in court. During his COVID-fueled extra weird tweeting spree just before the election, he tweeted about declassifying a bunch of stuff. When journos - can't remember which publication - used that to seek something sensitive - I think the unredacted Mueller report but don't quote me on that - it was held he hadn't declassified things just by saying he had on Twitter. Pretty sure that covers the idea of him doing it and just not telling anyone.
If Trump secretly telepathically declassified them before leaving office it’s ok because Biden secretly telepathically reclassified them on attaining the Presidency..

Anyway none of the charges against him required documentation to be classified to land him in the sh.t.
Some of the documents are reportedly so sensitive that the FBI is reportedly taking fingerprints to determine who actually touched them.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by dyqik » Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:05 pm

Meanwhile Russian state TV is taunting the US and claiming to have received details of the latest nuclear weapons.

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:18 pm

jimbob wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:48 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:46 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 am
It's worth noting that the argument various Trumpists are using - that maybe he declassified them and didn't tell anyone - already has precedent against it in court. During his COVID-fueled extra weird tweeting spree just before the election, he tweeted about declassifying a bunch of stuff. When journos - can't remember which publication - used that to seek something sensitive - I think the unredacted Mueller report but don't quote me on that - it was held he hadn't declassified things just by saying he had on Twitter. Pretty sure that covers the idea of him doing it and just not telling anyone.
If Trump secretly telepathically declassified them before leaving office it’s ok because Biden secretly telepathically reclassified them on attaining the Presidency..

Anyway none of the charges against him required documentation to be classified to land him in the sh.t.
Some of the documents are reportedly so sensitive that the FBI is reportedly taking fingerprints to determine who actually touched them.
I’ve heard some of the people sitting on various intelligence committees saying that when they see some of the information they have to go to a secure location, leave all phones ,pens, paper etc in a box, get checked by security guards before they enter etc. The same rules apply to the President. Simply leaving the room with an original or copy document should get anyone who does so sent down for years.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:03 pm

dyqik wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:05 pm
Meanwhile Russian state TV is taunting the US and claiming to have received details of the latest nuclear weapons.
They’re probably bullshitting (although it’s extremely worrying). Not as worrying as the Saudis getting hold of it though which I think is more likely.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by headshot » Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:18 pm
jimbob wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:48 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:46 am


If Trump secretly telepathically declassified them before leaving office it’s ok because Biden secretly telepathically reclassified them on attaining the Presidency..

Anyway none of the charges against him required documentation to be classified to land him in the sh.t.
Some of the documents are reportedly so sensitive that the FBI is reportedly taking fingerprints to determine who actually touched them.
I’ve heard some of the people sitting on various intelligence committees saying that when they see some of the information they have to go to a secure location, leave all phones ,pens, paper etc in a box, get checked by security guards before they enter etc. The same rules apply to the President. Simply leaving the room with an original or copy document should get anyone who does so sent down for years.
Yeah. That’s a SCIF:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti ... n_facility

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:18 pm

headshot wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:49 pm
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:18 pm
jimbob wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:48 am


Some of the documents are reportedly so sensitive that the FBI is reportedly taking fingerprints to determine who actually touched them.
I’ve heard some of the people sitting on various intelligence committees saying that when they see some of the information they have to go to a secure location, leave all phones ,pens, paper etc in a box, get checked by security guards before they enter etc. The same rules apply to the President. Simply leaving the room with an original or copy document should get anyone who does so sent down for years.
Yeah. That’s a SCIF:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti ... n_facility
Apparently TS SCI (Top Secret Sensitive Compartmented Information) is one above Top Secret (great film). Just heard a guy on a podcast saying that when he got that level of clearance the final interview was held in a room where the only pictures on the wall were of people who had been convicted for f.cking around and finding out in that regard.

It sounds far fetched but I once saw correspondence with a tax office whose postal address was Joseph Locke (famous tax cheat/Hear My Song) in their postal address so I wouldn’t rule it out.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:12 pm

Some reporting that one of Trump’s lawyers had signed something to say all papers had already been returned. If true it means they were lying or Trump had lied to them

https://twitter.com/maggienyt/status/15 ... a4iRBxfrmw
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by lpm » Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:52 pm

The unsealing tomorrow could be fun. By 5pm proper time.
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monkey
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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by monkey » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:19 pm

Not read a single word of it, but there is less black than I was expecting.

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by lpm » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:20 pm

Wow, we're getting so much detail!

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by lpm » Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:22 pm

This is informative:

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by dyqik » Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:30 pm

You'll be shocked to learn that the unredacted letter from Trump's lawyers that was given to the judge by the prosecutors reveals that Donald Trump has repeatedly mischaracterized his interactions with the National Archives.

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:00 am

In Oct 2021, CIA Counterintelligence sent a top secret cable warning an unusually number of confidential informants were being killed, captured, or compromised.

In Jan 2021, Trump stole documents on these kind of informants.
https://twitter.com/tristansnell/status ... aC-H28W1dw

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Al Capone Junior » Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:39 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:30 pm
You'll be shocked to learn that the unredacted letter from Trump's lawyers that was given to the judge by the prosecutors reveals that Donald Trump has repeatedly mischaracterized his interactions with the National Archives.
I'm shocked I say, shocked. :roll:

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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:47 am

Ouch

https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1 ... QX0t1JjfZw
NEW: DOJ suggests Trump counsel and Trump custodian — understood to be Christina Bobb — committed obstruction by representing that all docs from WH were in one storage location when they weren’t, and that all docs were turned over in response to subpoena when they weren’t
My favourite
DOJ: “That the FBI, in a matter of hours, recovered twice as many docs with classification markings as the “diligent search” that the former President’s counsel and other reps had weeks to perform calls into serious question the representations made in the June 3 certification”
Quite the read

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... tment-says
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I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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