US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
Stranger Mouse
Fuzzable
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:39 pm

Sources say it was a disgruntled staffer

Barron?

I got my hopes up because someone spotted a helicopter above VP house and he entered the White House a couple of hours ago
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

User avatar
dyqik
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by dyqik » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:20 pm

Apparently the DoD feels the need to screen troops being sent to guard state Capitols for domestic terrorist sympathizers.

https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1 ... 21346?s=20

User avatar
Stranger Mouse
Fuzzable
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:38 pm

Early reports saying 10-15 Capitol police under investigation, 2 suspended and one individual (role unclear) arrested.

I would bet a pound to a pinch of sh.t that one of the officers suspended was a Officer Selfie
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

User avatar
Stranger Mouse
Fuzzable
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Stranger Mouse » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:51 pm

This lawyer is hilarious but I’m not sure I would want him representing me

“We’re not magicians”

https://twitter.com/jivedurkey/status/1 ... 70176?s=21
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

Chris Preston
Clardic Fug
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:05 am

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Chris Preston » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:46 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:46 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:33 pm
He really doesn't understand the whole separation of powers thing, does he? States have executives and courts, just as they have legislatures.

Also, things like vote by mail in Pennsylvania were approved by the legislature - and introduced and supported by Republicans prior to Trump's anti VBM tantrum

And most states made changes due to COVID, yet he isn't calling for Texas's results to be thrown out

And Georgia is one of the few states that didn't make any changes (they already had a voting system that could be run safely in a pandemic, so no need to change it), yet he still disputes it

And...and...and...

FFS. Impeach the c.nt already, not just for sedition, but for crimes against the English language and crimes against the understanding of the constitution.
Indeed. He acts as if he is still CEO of a private company who gets to order everyone around.
This is one of the keys to understanding Trump's motivations and activities. None of it has anything to do with whether activities should be done in a particular way or whether that particular branch of government carries this activity. Trump doesn't understand this and doesn't care. He only cares about himself and bullying other people to do what he wants.

Trump had convinced himself that Pence would be able to throw out the electoral college votes because of the "fraud". When Pence said he couldn't, Trump thought he could use his followers both inside and outside Congress to bully Pence into doing it. That it was unconstitutional would never have entered Trump's head.
Here grows much rhubarb.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:29 am

Chris Preston wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:46 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:46 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:33 pm
He really doesn't understand the whole separation of powers thing, does he? States have executives and courts, just as they have legislatures.

Also, things like vote by mail in Pennsylvania were approved by the legislature - and introduced and supported by Republicans prior to Trump's anti VBM tantrum

And most states made changes due to COVID, yet he isn't calling for Texas's results to be thrown out

And Georgia is one of the few states that didn't make any changes (they already had a voting system that could be run safely in a pandemic, so no need to change it), yet he still disputes it

And...and...and...

FFS. Impeach the c.nt already, not just for sedition, but for crimes against the English language and crimes against the understanding of the constitution.
Indeed. He acts as if he is still CEO of a private company who gets to order everyone around.
This is one of the keys to understanding Trump's motivations and activities. None of it has anything to do with whether activities should be done in a particular way or whether that particular branch of government carries this activity. Trump doesn't understand this and doesn't care. He only cares about himself and bullying other people to do what he wants.

Trump had convinced himself that Pence would be able to throw out the electoral college votes because of the "fraud". When Pence said he couldn't, Trump thought he could use his followers both inside and outside Congress to bully Pence into doing it. That it was unconstitutional would never have entered Trump's head.
I agree. For Trump everything is transactional. Get leverage over people and they'll do what you want. That's the mindset of the mobster and it works to a certain extent for a real estate developer and reality TV star because after he'd stiffed people he could just move on to the next. But there are laws and using his followers to physically intimidate Congress broke many of them.

FlammableFlower
Catbabel
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:25 am

Jamiroquai insurrectionist hasn't, according to his mum, eaten since Friday as... the food he's been given in detention isn't organic.

plodder
Dorkwood
Posts: 1069
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:50 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by plodder » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:35 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:25 am
Jamiroquai insurrectionist hasn't, according to his mum, eaten since Friday as... the food he's been given in detention isn't organic.
Interesting how the whole organic (and presumably anti-vax) thing is now part of the overarching conspiracy make-up.

User avatar
Fishnut
Catbabel
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Fishnut » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 am

plodder wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:35 am
FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:25 am
Jamiroquai insurrectionist hasn't, according to his mum, eaten since Friday as... the food he's been given in detention isn't organic.
Interesting how the whole organic (and presumably anti-vax) thing is now part of the overarching conspiracy make-up.
It looks like fascist ecology has a long history

ETA: another link

and another, linking in Steiner as well

Chris Preston
Clardic Fug
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:05 am

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Chris Preston » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:44 am

Anthroposophy has a strong racial purity undertone. Steiner's views of agriculture that arose out of his general anthroposophy philosophy, but not his racial views, strongly influenced the original proponents of organic agriculture. The Nazis banned anthroposophy due to it being a rival cult. However, many of the Nazi leaders were sympathetic to many of its ideas.

I see the adoption of organic agriculture and anti-vax by the libertarian right in America as more coincidence than due to some deep seated connection. If your feelings tell you that white supremacism is God-ordained and its purity needs to be protected from the Government allowing all those coloured folk to forget their place, it is a pretty easy step to move on to purity of body and purity of food being important. It is also noticeable how those who started as anti-vaccine have shifted into libertarianism and even neo-fascism. Witness, RFK,Jr. hobnobbing with neo-Nazis in Berlin last year.
Here grows much rhubarb.

EACLucifer
Dorkwood
Posts: 1021
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 am

There's been a pattern with recent dismissals by Trump, including "resignations" under pressure.

Barr was forced out on the eve of the most disgraceful wave of pardons, including Kushner senior and those mercenary war criminal scum

The prosecutor in Georgia was forced out apparently as he was unwilling to go along with the "fraud" b.llsh.t and indict the innocent.

So that in mind, I am less than thrilled the acting DHS has stepped down.

User avatar
lpm
After Pie
Posts: 2547
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by lpm » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:54 am

No, this isn't some Nazi thing. Organic in America is different - standard food is so sh.t.

Nothing to do with Maga conspiracies. This is a country where people are used to govt/capitalists allowing water to be toxic and food to be packed with artificial chemicals. It's not much of a stretch to worry that a vial of vaccine will be made to the same standards. Many people across the political spectrum from fascist to new age come to similar conclusion - America doesn't give a damn about poisoning its citizens - and they've got some pretty good evidence in support.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

User avatar
jimbob
After Pie
Posts: 2099
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by jimbob » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:24 am

Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 am
plodder wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:35 am
FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:25 am
Jamiroquai insurrectionist hasn't, according to his mum, eaten since Friday as... the food he's been given in detention isn't organic.
Interesting how the whole organic (and presumably anti-vax) thing is now part of the overarching conspiracy make-up.
It looks like fascist ecology has a long history

ETA: another link

and another, linking in Steiner as well
If you listened to the interview with QAnon shaman in the summer, he's like a human version of the TimeCube as far as the coherence of his views. i could only bring myself to watch about 30 seconds
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:02 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 am
plodder wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:35 am
FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:25 am
Jamiroquai insurrectionist hasn't, according to his mum, eaten since Friday as... the food he's been given in detention isn't organic.
Interesting how the whole organic (and presumably anti-vax) thing is now part of the overarching conspiracy make-up.
It looks like fascist ecology has a long history

ETA: another link

and another, linking in Steiner as well
Indeed, there’s a long history of it. Look up Henry Williamson for a British example.

User avatar
nekomatic
Fuzzable
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by nekomatic » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:07 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:18 pm
bl..dy Hell. Couldn't you use a link?
I’m glad it was posted in full actually, because otherwise I probably wouldn’t have bothered to read it. I found it chilling because to anyone who doesn’t know it’s a mess of lies the level of detail starts to make it sound convincing, and if it convinced you then why wouldn’t you feel it your duty to resist the ‘steal’ by any means necessary?

Also I knew he was a fascist, but he really, really is a fascist, isn’t he?

User avatar
Little waster
Dorkwood
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Little waster » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:07 pm

Image

I genuinely thought that was an Onion parody at first glance. :shock:




https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politi ... story.html

Blocked in Europe but the Google cached version works

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=uk
People who use Godwin's Law are worse than Hitler.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:32 pm

Chris Preston wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:44 am
Anthroposophy has a strong racial purity undertone. Steiner's views of agriculture that arose out of his general anthroposophy philosophy, but not his racial views, strongly influenced the original proponents of organic agriculture. The Nazis banned anthroposophy due to it being a rival cult. However, many of the Nazi leaders were sympathetic to many of its ideas.

I see the adoption of organic agriculture and anti-vax by the libertarian right in America as more coincidence than due to some deep seated connection. If your feelings tell you that white supremacism is God-ordained and its purity needs to be protected from the Government allowing all those coloured folk to forget their place, it is a pretty easy step to move on to purity of body and purity of food being important. It is also noticeable how those who started as anti-vaccine have shifted into libertarianism and even neo-fascism. Witness, RFK,Jr. hobnobbing with neo-Nazis in Berlin last year.
lpm wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:54 am
No, this isn't some Nazi thing. Organic in America is different - standard food is so sh.t.

Nothing to do with Maga conspiracies. This is a country where people are used to govt/capitalists allowing water to be toxic and food to be packed with artificial chemicals. It's not much of a stretch to worry that a vial of vaccine will be made to the same standards. Many people across the political spectrum from fascist to new age come to similar conclusion - America doesn't give a damn about poisoning its citizens - and they've got some pretty good evidence in support.
You two may well be correct, but being pro-organic and anti-vaccination will also easily fit into strands of extreme right belief which have been around for a long time and are found outside the US. The first is the notion that a people should be intimately connected to the land they live on (thus migration is bad) and with that comes a concern for the land (for example Henry Williamson). Second is a rejection of modern technology and a wish to reconnect to an idealized past in which almost everyone made honest labour on the farm (for example Julius Evola). The third is antipathy toward big business which is seen as being run by and in the interest of decadent rootless cosmopolitans who exploit the honest working man (for example Mussolini etc).

I'm not saying that the QAnon Shaman or others read any of the above. But that it would be easy for an organic eating anti-vaxxer to feel at home and be welcomed in extreme right circles where people have been discussing these ideas.

User avatar
lpm
After Pie
Posts: 2547
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by lpm » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:55 pm

My fundamental disagreement is that this constructing coherent philosophical frameworks around blobs of jelly.

There might be the occasional Qanon person who has developed a political argument about honest farm labour connected to the land, with long words like anthroposophy and libertarianism. But 99% of these people wouldn't know where to start.

This Jamiroquai "shaman" believes anything and everything. He's a failed actor who played around with magic mushrooms. He believes typing Amen onto Facebook posts brings him blessings from the gods and that shapes formed by clouds predict the future. He believes he has magic cancer healing powers and that UFOs brought him to earth and that Trump is the second coming bringing the Rapture.

It's mad to jump from this poor confused and ill narcissist to philosphies of fascist ecology or anthroposophy.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

User avatar
dyqik
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by dyqik » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:55 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:54 am
No, this isn't some Nazi thing. Organic in America is different - standard food is so sh.t.

Nothing to do with Maga conspiracies. This is a country where people are used to govt/capitalists allowing water to be toxic and food to be packed with artificial chemicals. It's not much of a stretch to worry that a vial of vaccine will be made to the same standards. Many people across the political spectrum from fascist to new age come to similar conclusion - America doesn't give a damn about poisoning its citizens - and they've got some pretty good evidence in support.
Organic™ is about the same sophistication of response to that as Anti-vax, yes.

EACLucifer
Dorkwood
Posts: 1021
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:57 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:32 pm
I'm not saying that the QAnon Shaman or others read any of the above. But that it would be easy for an organic eating anti-vaxxer to feel at home and be welcomed in extreme right circles where people have been discussing these ideas.
His tattoos include symbols popular in Odinism, which is often quite big on the volkische, blood and soil type stuff.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:07 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:55 pm
My fundamental disagreement is that this constructing coherent philosophical frameworks around blobs of jelly.

There might be the occasional Qanon person who has developed a political argument about honest farm labour connected to the land, with long words like anthroposophy and libertarianism. But 99% of these people wouldn't know where to start.

This Jamiroquai "shaman" believes anything and everything. He's a failed actor who played around with magic mushrooms. He believes typing Amen onto Facebook posts brings him blessings from the gods and that shapes formed by clouds predict the future. He believes he has magic cancer healing powers and that UFOs brought him to earth and that Trump is the second coming bringing the Rapture.

It's mad to jump from this poor confused and ill narcissist to philosphies of fascist ecology or anthroposophy.
As I wrote, the point wasn't that the Shaman had read or understood any of it. But that when he was in Gab or Parler and discussing things with members of the extreme right, and he expressed antipathy toward industries that produce food and vaccines, he'd find lots of others who agreed with him. There's nothing incongruous about the Shaman being an extreme rightist.

User avatar
lpm
After Pie
Posts: 2547
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by lpm » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:27 pm

My point is that you could say exactly the same about absolutely anything.

You'll find lots of others from the extreme right who agree with you when you say vaccines cause autism. When you say 5G causes Covid. When you say 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy. When you say the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was forced at gunpoint to rape children. When you say Covid-19 testing sites are temples to Anubis. When you say lizard-people fly UFOs out of the hollow earth through a hole at Antarctica.

Saying there's nothing incongruous about an environmentalist being part of the extreme right Qanon is to say nothing, because there's nothing incongruous about anything being part of the extreme right Qanon.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

User avatar
jimbob
After Pie
Posts: 2099
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by jimbob » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:18 pm

jimbob wrote:
If you listened to the interview with QAnon shaman in the summer, he's like a human version of the TimeCube as far as the coherence of his views. i could only bring myself to watch about 30 seconds
Or what LPM said
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Rich Scopie
Clardic Fug
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by Rich Scopie » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:34 pm

FlammableFlower wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:25 am
Jamiroquai insurrectionist hasn't, according to his mum, eaten since Friday as... the food he's been given in detention isn't organic.
Well, with the money saved they can take him to the zoo.
It first was a rumour dismissed as a lie, but then came the evidence none could deny:
a double page spread in the Sunday Express — the Russians are running the DHSS!

User avatar
dyqik
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Post by dyqik » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:03 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:27 pm
My point is that you could say exactly the same about absolutely anything.

You'll find lots of others from the extreme right who agree with you when you say vaccines cause autism. When you say 5G causes Covid. When you say 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy. When you say the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was forced at gunpoint to rape children. When you say Covid-19 testing sites are temples to Anubis. When you say lizard-people fly UFOs out of the hollow earth through a hole at Antarctica.

Saying there's nothing incongruous about an environmentalist being part of the extreme right Qanon is to say nothing, because there's nothing incongruous about anything being part of the extreme right Qanon.
The KKK was also pretty pro-Native American, for various reasons that are probably only* of academic interest.

*i.e. exactly the sort of thing you lot want to know. But you know how to Google.

Post Reply