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Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:41 pm
by dyqik
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:39 pm
Lots of places have already defunded their police forces to invest in social care https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... partments/

But so far it's a grass-roots bottom-up effort (and I've not seen any analysis of the correlation with police union membership/strength). I don't see the current administration doing much to improve social care in communities, and so far all their police 'reform' proposals are just more of the same treading-lightly three-training-course-on-how-not-to-execute-black-people-but-no-consequences-if-you-do time-wasting that's been such a roaring success (for US racists). But that's because they're not interested in doing anything, not because they couldn't take on the unions if they needed to.
At the national level, the only major thing that the Biden administration can do is via the Justice Department enforcing existing national laws - they have no real role in policing, except national organizations like FBI, ATF, etc. which are largely irrelevant to this. Congress can additionally stop funding transfers of military hardware and stuff like that, but that takes legislative time. And the Justice Dept. can't really start doing stuff until the Senate gets round to confirming an attorney general, which Lindsay Graham is currently blocking.

Most of the defund the police action has to be at state or local levels, and that's going to look more like the grassroots efforts you are talking about. The MA effort was bouncing back and forth between the R governor and the D legislature last I head. The Boston city effort was going more strongly, but the mayor is in the process of being confirmed as Biden's Secretary of Labor.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:58 pm
by dyqik
dyqik wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:41 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:39 pm
Lots of places have already defunded their police forces to invest in social care https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... partments/

But so far it's a grass-roots bottom-up effort (and I've not seen any analysis of the correlation with police union membership/strength). I don't see the current administration doing much to improve social care in communities, and so far all their police 'reform' proposals are just more of the same treading-lightly three-training-course-on-how-not-to-execute-black-people-but-no-consequences-if-you-do time-wasting that's been such a roaring success (for US racists). But that's because they're not interested in doing anything, not because they couldn't take on the unions if they needed to.
At the national level, the only major thing that the Biden administration can do is via the Justice Department enforcing existing national laws - they have no real role in policing, except national organizations like FBI, ATF, etc. which are largely irrelevant to this. Congress can additionally stop funding transfers of military hardware and stuff like that, but that takes legislative time. And the Justice Dept. can't really start doing stuff until the Senate gets round to confirming an attorney general, which Lindsay Graham is currently blocking.

Most of the defund the police action has to be at state or local levels, and that's going to look more like the grassroots efforts you are talking about. The MA effort was bouncing back and forth between the R governor and the D legislature last I head. The Boston city effort was going more strongly, but the mayor is in the process of being confirmed as Biden's Secretary of Labor.
(I'm counting ICE as separate issue to this, btw.)

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:15 pm
by Bird on a Fire
The fact that killer cops are almost never subject to appropriate criminal consequences for their actions is kinda the point, though.

For instance, they're talking about banning chokeholds federally. Great. But the cop who killed Eric Garner did so with a banned chokehold, and never faced any criminal proceedings. It took 5 years just to fire the c.nt. There's no point banning stuff if you're not also forcing districts to enforce those bans, or make breaking them a federal offence. There is a general need to stop cops being above the law.

I know the Republicans will block loads of useful ideas, even though 50% of their voters want an overhaul of policing. Those mendacious wastes of skin are going to hold everything up. But after the huge effort of black activists to help secure Biden's election it would be really super to see him at least trying to make the kinds of changes those activists have been calling for loudly since last summer, or at least talk frankly about why there's no point trying.

But yes, I do appreciate that one of the reasons US police still act like it's the 1960s is because the regulation of policing is so fragmented it has a huge amount of in-built inertia. I hope the grassroots changes continue, but it would be nice to see more acknowledgement of it and dialogue from the top down. BLM were saying a while back that they've been trying to meet with the administration and keep being ignored, for instance. I'm not saying BLM activists should necessarily be setting the legislative agenda, but I do think they should be included in the conversation.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:30 pm
by dyqik
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:15 pm
The fact that killer cops are almost never subject to appropriate criminal consequences for their actions is kinda the point, though.

For instance, they're talking about banning chokeholds federally. Great. But the cop who killed Eric Garner did so with a banned chokehold, and never faced any criminal proceedings. It took 5 years just to fire the c.nt. There's no point banning stuff if you're not also forcing districts to enforce those bans, or make breaking them a federal offence. There is a general need to stop cops being above the law.
This enforcement is the Justice Department's job. Hopefully there are enough people left there that know what they are doing to make changes happen.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:05 pm
by FlammableFlower
Bloke texted his ex-girlfriend from inside the Capitol during the insurrection to call her a moron. She turned him in and he's now facing up to 20 years inside...

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:37 am
by Chris Preston

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:55 am
by Chris Preston
More fallout from the January 6 activities

This time involving Alex Jones.

I am intrigued at times whether there is a secret competition going on for which Trump supporter can put on the most deranged performance.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:49 pm
by tom p
I do think the democrats should have waited to Impeach & prevent Trump until more stuff came out & it would be undeniable that T'rump was behind it, then they may have got a handful more people, or persuaded a few to abstain

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:02 pm
by Grumble
tom p wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:49 pm
I do think the democrats should have waited to Impeach & prevent Trump until more stuff came out & it would be undeniable that T'rump was behind it, then they may have got a handful more people, or persuaded a few to abstain
But the reason Mitch McConnell gave for not convicting was that Trump wasn’t President any more.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:06 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Plus, anything is deniable, in the sense that the Republicans will quite happily tell brazen lies 24/7 about everything. This has been clear since Trump's "biggest ever" inauguration.

Trying to accumulate evidence and good arguments is the wrong approach if your opponent doesn't play by those rules. Right now the US is in the midst of a huge power struggle, where one side is gloves-off, anything-goes, no-holds-barred while the other side just keeps reading the rule book out in a loud voice and trying to get along with the other team.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:09 pm
by JQH
The same thing is happening in the UK

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:09 pm
by bjn
JQH wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:09 pm
The same thing is happening in the UK
Yep.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:55 am
by Chris Preston
tom p wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:49 pm
I do think the democrats should have waited to Impeach & prevent Trump until more stuff came out & it would be undeniable that T'rump was behind it, then they may have got a handful more people, or persuaded a few to abstain
As a long term political outcome, the Republicans voting against convicting Trump, despite the obvious evidence is going to favour the Democrats. Trump will be the Republican Party candidate for President in 2024 and he is unelectable. Any sensible Republicans will be primaried by Qanon conspiracy supporters. In any marginal district, such candidates will lose to any reasonable Democrat candidate. If the Democratic Party can keep it together, they can hold the House and the Presidency for a generation.

ETA. The key reason Trump and the Republicans did so well in 2020 was because the Republicans campaigned in person with rallies and doorknocking , whereas the Democrats did almost all their campaigning online. If the Pandemic is controlled, the Democrats will be able to campaign more effectively in 2022.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:55 am
by bmforre
And Twitter took his megaphone away, he's got no replacement for what was his main channel for bullroars.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
by Stranger Mouse
The Sydney Powell case is going well. Top rate double think as she claims that no reasonable person would believe her but people must believe her

https://twitter.com/zoetillman/status/1 ... 02340?s=21

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:18 pm
by FlammableFlower
Erm... my head just broke trying to work that out...

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
by bjn
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
The Sydney Powell case is going well. Top rate double think as she claims that no reasonable person would believe her but people must believe her

https://twitter.com/zoetillman/status/1 ... 02340?s=21
Didn't she make those claims in court cases? So is therefore admitting to perjury?

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:26 pm
by tenchboy
I think what she is admitting is that she was speaking in her role as a politician; everyone knows politicians talk bollox: ergo it was bollox.
But known bollox not unknown bollox.
Which is bollox.
This is double decker meta with extra meta on top.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:39 pm
by Vertigowooyay
bjn wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
The Sydney Powell case is going well. Top rate double think as she claims that no reasonable person would believe her but people must believe her

https://twitter.com/zoetillman/status/1 ... 02340?s=21
Didn't she make those claims in court cases? So is therefore admitting to perjury?
I thought one of their 'tricks' was to make claims like that on the courthouse steps, not before a judge, because they knew it was all bollocks - so the fake message gets out but they don't risk being debarred.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:10 pm
by monkey
bjn wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
The Sydney Powell case is going well. Top rate double think as she claims that no reasonable person would believe her but people must believe her

https://twitter.com/zoetillman/status/1 ... 02340?s=21
Didn't she make those claims in court cases? So is therefore admitting to perjury?
I don't think any of her cases got so far as anyone being able to do that, but also lawyers present other people's evidence, so don't do anything under oath - if it got so far as calling witnesses, it wouldn't be her on the stand doing the lying.

It's a good case for her disbarment though. That can't come quick enough.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:27 pm
by dyqik
monkey wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:10 pm
bjn wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:41 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:11 pm
The Sydney Powell case is going well. Top rate double think as she claims that no reasonable person would believe her but people must believe her

https://twitter.com/zoetillman/status/1 ... 02340?s=21
Didn't she make those claims in court cases? So is therefore admitting to perjury?
I don't think any of her cases got so far as anyone being able to do that, but also lawyers present other people's evidence, so don't do anything under oath - if it got so far as calling witnesses, it wouldn't be her on the stand doing the lying.

It's a good case for her disbarment though. That can't come quick enough.
Lawyers sign their pleadings before the court as officers of the court, including alledgement of facts, and, I think, can be criminally penalized for lying there. Sydney Powell repeatedly did this in multiple jurisdictions. She's absolutely liable for knowingly lying in written submissions to the courts.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:58 pm
by headshot
Also, she's a lawyer, not a politician. She was working as a lawyer, presenting herself to the public as a lawyer and being paid to do lawyerly work.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:53 pm
by FlammableFlower
Can't find the link now, but was reading of a guy who's been arrested for the Capitol insurrection and when they turned up to get him he was wearing a T-shirt with a photo from the capitol riots and an "I was there" slogan on it.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:33 pm
by bolo
Oh how nice. I am getting email and phone alerts about an "external security threat" at the capitol complex, with no entry or exit permitted and stay away from windows. No further details yet. Could be nothing, or could be something. What a happy time we live in.

Re: US 2021 Capitol insurrection

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:47 pm
by bolo
bolo wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:33 pm
Oh how nice. I am getting email and phone alerts about an "external security threat" at the capitol complex, with no entry or exit permitted and stay away from windows. No further details yet. Could be nothing, or could be something. What a happy time we live in.
Latest update says the external security threat continues, and also "someone rammed a vehicle into two [Capitol Police] Officers. A suspect is in custody. Both officers are injured. All three have been transported to the hospital."