I was thinking about inelastic collisions with other cars: The lighter car will always come of worst.shpalman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:19 amIf you hit something unmovable in your car, like a wall or a tree, then the car stops but the whole point is that you have to stop too.
Cars have crumple zones, airbags, and pre-tensioning seatbelts (whose mountings are designed to peel away from the bit of the car they're attached to) in order to make this deceleration controlled and survivable. It's your mass which is the issue, not the mass of the car.
Otherwise what other kind of accident are you talking about. Please provide stats to show which kinds of RTA lead to significant numbers of injuries and deaths.
Road safety
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Re: Road safety
Hjulet snurrar men hamstern är död.
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Re: Road safety
The unstoppable force stops, the immovable object moves.
Blame those reckless idiots at Volvo who brought side-impact bars to the mainstream so that everyone now just blows through red lights without looking, unafraid of being t-boned.
Blame those reckless idiots at Volvo who brought side-impact bars to the mainstream so that everyone now just blows through red lights without looking, unafraid of being t-boned.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Road safety
Blame the Australians as it was a standard they introduced that crept backwards up the supply chain.
Re: Road safety
I feel this may be a post written in Italy.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three
now I sin till ten past three
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Re: Road safety
Reported road casualties in Great Britain: 2019 annual report
Car occupants are killed at a rate of about 2 a day in the UK; serious injuries are more like 30 a day.
(Motorcyclists are killed at about half that rate, but with two orders of magnitude less vehicle-miles travelled.)
I'm not interested in "ah but it's not the speed/momentum/energy which kills you but the momentum/energy/[impulse from going from that momentum to zero]" - it's like that "it's not the fall that kills you but the hitting the ground at the bottom" yeah we get it.
Just about all modern cars can decelerate the same assuming you aren't driving like a dickhead for the conditions, since a heavier car pushes down harder on its tyres so there's more friction force available and ABS is mandatory (the flipside of this is that 4-wheel drive doesn't give you better cornering or braking since all cars already corner and brake like that, but higher cars definitely reduce the sensation of speed). Anecdotally the accidents I tend to see on the local news are of the "how the hell did you manage that?" variety with cars upside-down facing the wrong way on roads with low speed limits. Otherwise it might be that one or both morons managed to encroach into the incoming traffic's lane, especially if god forbid you might be trying to not exceed the speed limit by too much and the moron behind you decides it's still too slow.
Meanwhile I think we know that by far the main kind of motorcycle accident is where a car "just didn't see him" and fails to give way, and then the second most common kind is failing to be able to go round a corner.
Cars have been getting heavier, there are fewer RTA casualities.
Car occupants are killed at a rate of about 2 a day in the UK; serious injuries are more like 30 a day.
(Motorcyclists are killed at about half that rate, but with two orders of magnitude less vehicle-miles travelled.)
I'm not interested in "ah but it's not the speed/momentum/energy which kills you but the momentum/energy/[impulse from going from that momentum to zero]" - it's like that "it's not the fall that kills you but the hitting the ground at the bottom" yeah we get it.
Just about all modern cars can decelerate the same assuming you aren't driving like a dickhead for the conditions, since a heavier car pushes down harder on its tyres so there's more friction force available and ABS is mandatory (the flipside of this is that 4-wheel drive doesn't give you better cornering or braking since all cars already corner and brake like that, but higher cars definitely reduce the sensation of speed). Anecdotally the accidents I tend to see on the local news are of the "how the hell did you manage that?" variety with cars upside-down facing the wrong way on roads with low speed limits. Otherwise it might be that one or both morons managed to encroach into the incoming traffic's lane, especially if god forbid you might be trying to not exceed the speed limit by too much and the moron behind you decides it's still too slow.
Meanwhile I think we know that by far the main kind of motorcycle accident is where a car "just didn't see him" and fails to give way, and then the second most common kind is failing to be able to go round a corner.
Cars have been getting heavier, there are fewer RTA casualities.
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having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Road safety
But if I start chucking stuff at you, you'd rather be hit by a heavy sponge than a light marble.
Isn't a Volvo a heavy sponge? When it crashes into a Aygo it will crumple into a write off while the Aygo will have a small dent in the bumper.
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Re: Road safety
A large part of that is because the UK has redesigned roads to remove blackspots. Bad junctions are rare, because if they've caused an accident they get changed.
Drive abroad and you immediately notice really bad road design. Junction layouts aren't up to UK standards. When Tiger Woods crashed the other day, coming off a curving road and somersaulting down a slope into some trees, the police guy said Oh yes, there's loads of accidents at that spot.
The UK is basically world number 1 for road safety, so it should be possible to take the average EU improvement and attribute it to safer cars, leaving the UK extra as the road design effect.
Awarded gold star 4 November 2021
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Re: Road safety
Italian road accident statistics pdf in English
Drive in Lincolnshire and you immediately notice really bad road design. Although they tend not to have curves. Or slopes.
Drive in Lincolnshire and you immediately notice really bad road design. Although they tend not to have curves. Or slopes.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Road safety
I believe the slogan they adopted* in-house is "Nobody dies in a Volvo". That's their target: to have an entire year where absolutely nobody dies in a Volvo. Whether it has a subtitle along the lines of "But if you're outside the Volvo, you're on your own" I am unsure.
*to replace the 1980s classic "they're boxy, but they're good".
- TAFKAsoveda
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Re: Road safety
I need to re-read some DNAMartin_B wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:35 amEspecially if you live at point C, being a point directly in between point A and point B, and are often given to wonder what's so great about point A that so many people from point B are so keen to get there, and what's so great about point B that so many people from point A are so keen to get there.
Re: Road safety
Until a couple of years ago, at least, it was the case that nobody had died in a Volvo XC90 - which, considering it's been around since 2002 is not a bad record. Mind you, it's a bit of a tank, but that's part of the appeal.Martin Y wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:56 pmI believe the slogan they adopted* in-house is "Nobody dies in a Volvo". That's their target: to have an entire year where absolutely nobody dies in a Volvo. Whether it has a subtitle along the lines of "But if you're outside the Volvo, you're on your own" I am unsure.
*to replace the 1980s classic "they're boxy, but they're good".
ETA - Actually, that's in UK only as of 2018 - from sales of about 70,000 over 14 years, so not quite as impressive
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
Re: Road safety
"no one has ever died on one of our motorcycles" would probably reduce sales...
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Re: Road safety
"nobody has ever died in these shoes" cackled the wizened old crone at the haunted shoe emporium
I left disappointed and bought a pair in the charity shop instead to make sure
I left disappointed and bought a pair in the charity shop instead to make sure
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.
Re: Road safety
Methuselace-ups ?Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:40 pm"nobody has ever died in these shoes" cackled the wizened old crone at the haunted shoe emporium
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!
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Re: Road safety
Well, if we’re doing ’80s cultural references…TAFKAsoveda wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:22 pmI need to re-read some DNAMartin_B wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:35 amEspecially if you live at point C, being a point directly in between point A and point B, and are often given to wonder what's so great about point A that so many people from point B are so keen to get there, and what's so great about point B that so many people from point A are so keen to get there.
Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through
Re: Road safety
we've done this already. risk = consequence x likelihood. By falling off the likelihood of a consequence becomes certain and therefore risk = consequence. In other words, it's the falling off that gets you and douglas adams was wrong. if it was douglas adams who came up with that one, obvs.Trinucleus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:47 pmPresumably coming off them and hitting something hard is what does the damage