UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

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Woodchopper
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UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:12 pm

The U.K. inflamed tensions with the European Union by reneging on part of their post-Brexit settlement, saying it would unilaterally change trade rules relating to Northern Ireland.

The British government said it will waive customs paperwork on food entering Northern Ireland until October, beyond the April 1 deadline it had agreed on with the EU. The U.K. had asked for the deadline to be extended, but the bloc hadn’t given its consent.

Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis said Wednesday in a written ministerial statement that the government “is taking several temporary operational steps to avoid disruptive cliff edges as engagement with the EU continues.”

“These recognize that appropriate time must be provided for businesses to implement new requirements,” he said.

Trade across the Irish Sea has been one of the most contentious features of Britain’s post-Brexit relationship with the EU, as companies have had to grapple with new paperwork and frictions on commerce. An EU official said Britain’s move wasn’t an extension of a grace period because it wasn’t mutually agreed on, and that U.K. action is in breach of the Brexit deal.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... f=yMmXm5Iy

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:36 pm

“EU reacts to latest UK unilateral measures re the Northern Ireland protocol. States that they are a breach of the withdrawal agreement and that it will react using the "legal means" in that agreement and the Brexit deal.”
https://twitter.com/stevepeers/status/1 ... 67108?s=21

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:00 am

oooooo fun
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:01 am

And there’s more:
A body that claims to represent loyalist paramilitary organisations has told Boris Johnson the outlawed groups are withdrawing support for Northern Ireland’s historic peace agreement.

The Loyalist Communities Council (LCC) said the groups were temporarily withdrawing their backing of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement amid mounting concerns about the contentious Northern Ireland Protocol governing Irish Sea trade post-Brexit.

However, they stressed that unionist opposition to the protocol should remain “peaceful and democratic”.

The 1998 agreement that loyalist paramilitaries endorsed 23 years ago ended decades of violence and established devolved powersharing at Stormont.

UK ministers are facing a backlash from unionists who fear the post-Brexit protocol threatens Northern Ireland’s place in the UK internal market.

[...]

The letter sent to Johnson said the paramilitaries’ stance would continue until the protocol was amended to ensure “unfettered access for goods, services, and citizens throughout the United Kingdom”.

It added: “If you or the EU is not prepared to honour the entirety of the agreement then you will be responsible for the permanent destruction of the agreement.”

[...]

The letter to the prime minister was written by David Campbell, the chairman of the LCC. He wrote a similar letter to the Irish taoiseach, Micheál Martin.

The LCC represents the Ulster Volunteer Force, Ulster Defence Association and Red Hand Commando, which were responsible for many deaths during 30 years of conflict.

The main loyalist and republican armed groups signed up to principles such as commitment to non-violence during discussions which led to the signing of the Belfast agreement in exchange for early release of prisoners.

The letter said: “We are concerned about the disruption to trade and commerce between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom that is occurring, but our core objection is much more fundamental.”

It said that during the Brexit negotiations the government and the EU said it was paramount to protect the Belfast Agreement and its built-in safeguards for the two main communities in Northern Ireland. The letter said the operation of the protocol “repeatedly breaches those objectives”.

Campbell insisted the LCC leadership was determined that opposition to the protocol should be “peaceful and democratic”.

“However, please do not underestimate the strength of feeling on this issue right across the unionist family,” he wrote.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... SApp_Other

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:36 am

Split off some posts from the Brexit consequences thread as it looks like this issue may get some attention.

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Re: Brexit Consequences

Post by malbui » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:41 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:01 am
And there’s more:
A body that claims to represent loyalist paramilitary organisations has told Boris Johnson the outlawed groups are withdrawing support for Northern Ireland’s historic peace agreement.

The Loyalist Communities Council (LCC) said the groups were temporarily withdrawing their backing of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement amid mounting concerns about the contentious Northern Ireland Protocol governing Irish Sea trade post-Brexit.

However, they stressed that unionist opposition to the protocol should remain “peaceful and democratic”.

The 1998 agreement that loyalist paramilitaries endorsed 23 years ago ended decades of violence and established devolved powersharing at Stormont.

UK ministers are facing a backlash from unionists who fear the post-Brexit protocol threatens Northern Ireland’s place in the UK internal market.

[...]

The letter sent to Johnson said the paramilitaries’ stance would continue until the protocol was amended to ensure “unfettered access for goods, services, and citizens throughout the United Kingdom”.

It added: “If you or the EU is not prepared to honour the entirety of the agreement then you will be responsible for the permanent destruction of the agreement.”

[...]
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... SApp_Other
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:49 am

To recap the previous discussions, If the UK is to be outside the EU Customs Union and Single Market then there has to be a border somewhere. There is no way to place that border without antagonizing one or other of the factions in Northern Ireland.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by veravista » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:07 am

So the only realistic option to prevent the return of violence is to somehow to rejoin the single market and customs union. That's one massive cul de sac de Pfiiiffffel and his disaster capitalist mates have driven us down. I wonder if they really remember (or even care) what it was like during the troubles, especially when it spread to the mainland?

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by malbui » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:11 am

veravista wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:07 am
So the only realistic option to prevent the return of violence is to somehow to rejoin the single market and customs union. That's one massive cul de sac de Pfiiiffffel and his disaster capitalist mates have driven us down. I wonder if they really remember (or even care) what it was like during the troubles, especially when it spread to the mainland?
The wretched current Home Secretary speculated about starving the Irish out as a negotiating tactic. Insofar as the current UKGov have any vaguely historical knowledge of Ireland, it's related to the glory days of Cromwell or putting down the 1798 rebellion or watching the people die in the 1840s.
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by veravista » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:18 am

Yes malbui, very true. I however remember (growing up in a big military town) the controlled explosions of suspect vehicles parked outside the town hall and shopping centres, the compound full of the burned out and bullet ridden Army Land Rovers in the REME compound and having shaky 18 year old squaddies pointing a rifle full of live rounds at us when our car was unfortunate enough to run out of petrol near the garrison buildings. Somehow Colchester got away with a lot of violence, others weren't so lucky.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by plodder » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:20 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:49 am
To recap the previous discussions, If the UK is to be outside the EU Customs Union and Single Market then there has to be a border somewhere. There is no way to place that border without antagonizing one or other of the factions in Northern Ireland.
Ok yes.

But: no one will build the border posts for exactly the same reason.

So: they’ll fudge it.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by shpalman » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:37 am

They're fudging it now and this is what is happening.
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by malbui » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:45 am

veravista wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:18 am
Yes malbui, very true. I however remember (growing up in a big military town) the controlled explosions of suspect vehicles parked outside the town hall and shopping centres, the compound full of the burned out and bullet ridden Army Land Rovers in the REME compound and having shaky 18 year old squaddies pointing a rifle full of live rounds at us when our car was unfortunate enough to run out of petrol near the garrison buildings. Somehow Colchester got away with a lot of violence, others weren't so lucky.
I too grew up in a barracks town that had a pub bombing in 1975 where only by the merest of chances nobody was killed and we were used to bomb scares and evacuating areas around parked cars and very nervous squaddies standing around. And this was in the part of England as far away from Northern Ireland as you can get without having the sea lap around your ankles.

I despise everybody implicated in the Brexit project anyway, but those who pushed for the way it played out knowing, but not caring, that a return to the Troubles was possible... I have no words.
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:51 am

shpalman wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:37 am
They're fudging it now and this is what is happening.
Exactly. We are looking at the results of the fudge. The dispute is about form filling and complying with regulations, not about physical border infrastructure.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by plodder » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:59 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:51 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:37 am
They're fudging it now and this is what is happening.
Exactly. We are looking at the results of the fudge. The dispute is about form filling and complying with regulations, not about physical border infrastructure.
Not my reading. The dispute is because the fudge runs out on April 1st, the UK have asked for an extension, and the EU have refused.

I understand what’s been agreed, and I know the UK gov is to blame, but we’re past that now. The EU will also join in with fudging, there’s no alternative. I’m no expert on the GFA but this is also fudgy. It’s all fudgy and will stay that way. Unless someone has a better solution?

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by plodder » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:00 am

I ought to point out, for the hard of thinking, that “wind the clock back” is not an option.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:11 am

Fudge is rubbish.
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:13 am

plodder wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:59 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:51 am
shpalman wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:37 am
They're fudging it now and this is what is happening.
Exactly. We are looking at the results of the fudge. The dispute is about form filling and complying with regulations, not about physical border infrastructure.
Not my reading. The dispute is because the fudge runs out on April 1st, the UK have asked for an extension, and the EU have refused.
I don't think so. The letter calls for: “unfettered access for goods, services, and citizens throughout the United Kingdom”. That isn't the situation now under the grace period. Though they'll like it even less when the grace period runs out.

They want a truck load of saplings or of cheese to be able to drive from Birmingham to Belfast without anyone having to ask permission to do so.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:15 am

plodder wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:00 am
I ought to point out, for the hard of thinking, that “wind the clock back” is not an option.
I agree. One reason why I avoided the word brexit in the thread title. Its over.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by veravista » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:33 am

From my understanding I don't think that the UK actually asked for an extension, they just announced they were going to do it. They have learnt nothing from the last 4 years. They are contemptible.

Still, we can ban their bottled water!*

* Only we can't because any sanctions we apply to the EU must apply to all and every trading partner if I understand the WTO rules correctly.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by cvb » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:11 am

This getting a bit worrying as I and my family actually live here. I grew up in the troubles and it was f.cking shite. I did not lose anybody but I know lots that did.

I agree we cannot roll the clock back but f.ck me. the c.nts in charge of this are c.nts.

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:45 am

veravista wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:33 am
From my understanding I don't think that the UK actually asked for an extension, they just announced they were going to do it.
It says they did ask, in the second paragraph of the quoted article in the first post. I'm not sure what that asking looked like, though.
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:48 am

Here’s a copy of the Loyalist Communities Council letter: https://twitter.com/AllisonMorris1/stat ... 28195?s=20

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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:50 am

There's no easy way forward here. Republic of Ireland isn't leaving the EU and the UK isn't going back in.

A sensible UK government would have involved all the devolved powers properly in negotiations from the start, and paid special attention to this kind of thing. Other than shafting the DUP after losing an election, they didn't even pretend to.

Years of demonising legitimate refugees over whipped-up fears of terrorism, and their stupidity brings the country closer to a resurgence of the troubles.
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Re: UK-EU relations and Northern Ireland

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:04 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:50 am
A sensible UK government would have involved all the devolved powers properly in negotiations from the start, and paid special attention to this kind of thing. Other than shafting the DUP after losing an election, they didn't even pretend to.
At least under May the unionists had a de facto veto in the UK parliament and the government in Dublin had a de facto veto over measures that would sell out the nationalists. There was a balance which ended up with May's convoluted plan to keep the UK in the single market and customs union.

Johnson's 80 seat majority meant that he could ignore the DUP. Which he did.

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