Menopause is self-inflicted

[Millennie Al]

I still experience a hint of surprise every time I find an ancestor who lived more than around 75 years.

Famously Psalm 90:10 says "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.", but I don't really know what it's supposed to mean - it seems to say that people should expect to live to be 70 or maybe 80, yet that seems too long for such an old text.

There's a hypothetical table in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... man_Empire which shows huge child mortality - about 50% die by age 10. But disregarding that and looking at people who got to 40, their life expectancy was only about another 20 years, whereas today in the UK the life expectancy at birth is somewhere around 80. So if you go back far enough there really is a big difference.

[bolo]

Even though I know this stuff and very much understand about averages and also about the fact that anyone who survived to have a child is well past the whole child mortality thing, and that means that anyone who is a direct ancestor of mine is by definition not going to have died as a child and therefore the average life expectancy among my direct ancestors will be considerably higher than the overall population at any given time, I still experience a hint of surprise every time I find an ancestor who lived more than around 75 years.

Indeed. I was surprised to discover that one of my ancestors died in 1810 at the age of 97. But then there's MrsBolo's ancestor who coincidentally also died in 1810, but at the age of about 40, having given birth to 10 children of whom seven died before age 1, one died aged 10, one I haven't "killed off" yet, and one died aged 28, the last of these having given birth to six children of her own. MrsBolo is, of course, descended from the one who made it to 28.

[Tessa K]

Hildegard of Bingen wrote in the 12th century

“The menses cease in women from the fiftieth year and sometimes in certain ones from the sixtieth when the uterus begins to be enfolded and to contract, so that they are no longer able to conceive.”

So clearly enough women were living that long for it to be noted.

[noggins]

I still experience a hint of surprise every time I find an ancestor who lived more than around 75 years.

Famously Psalm 90:10 says "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.", but I don't really know what it's supposed to mean - it seems to say that people should expect to live to be 70 or maybe 80, yet that seems too long for such an old text.

There's a hypothetical table in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... man_Empire which shows huge child mortality - about 50% die by age 10. But disregarding that and looking at people who got to 40, their life expectancy was only about another 20 years, whereas today in the UK the life expectancy at birth is somewhere around 80. So if you go back far enough there really is a big difference.

Maybe theres a sweet spot for pre-germ-knowledge life expectancy. Small communities, a varied and secure diet.and a basic idea not to drink where you sh.t. Etc Until germ theory (?) comes along every other technological &
social “advance” makes health worse.

[Gfamily]

Edmund Halley, arguably England's greatest scientist, produced a table of mortality from the data held by the City of Breslau

I will ſuppoſe the People of Breſlaw to be encreaſed by 1238 Births annually. Of theſe it appears by the ſame Tables, that 348 do die yearly in the firſt Year of their Age and that but 890 do arrive at a full Year's Age; and like-wiſe, that 198 do die in the Five Years between 1 and 6 compleat, taken at a Medium. So that but 692 of the perſons born do ſurvive Six whole Years

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... .1693.0007

[Tessa K]

I was wondering about life expectancy outside of Western countries, which is mostly what we've been discussing so far. I thought maybe that in warmer countries people wouldn't have to be huddled up together indoors for most of the year, often with animals, which might improve mortality rates. But of course there are other factors like poverty, education, lack of medical resources, political and cultural pressures.

I found this for India, mid 20s in 1800 to 70 now.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/104 ... -all-time/

and in China, from low 30s from 1850 to high 70s in 2020

https://www.statista.com/statistics/104 ... -all-time/

In Japan it was mid 30s in 1860 and is now mid 80s.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/104 ... n-all-time

In the UK it was 40 in 1765 and 80 now.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/104 ... -all-time/

I'm not drawing any conclusions from this, I just thought it was interesting to look around the world.

[Millennie Al]

I don't think living in warmer countries helps. We evolved in Africa, so there's plenty of tropical diseases that are well adpated to warm countries. What really makes a big difference is sanitation as it stops many diseases spreading.

[Tessa K]

A third of women who have suffered symptoms of the menopause say they hid them at work, and many think there remains a stigma around talking about the subject, according to a survey of workers in five countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ork-report

[Grumble]

A third of women who have suffered symptoms of the menopause say they hid them at work, and many think there remains a stigma around talking about the subject, according to a survey of workers in five countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ork-report

What’s the difference between thinking there’s a stigma, and there being a stigma?

[Woodchopper]

A third of women who have suffered symptoms of the menopause say they hid them at work, and many think there remains a stigma around talking about the subject, according to a survey of workers in five countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ork-report

What’s the difference between thinking there’s a stigma, and there being a stigma?

In a survey it’s much easier to ask about the interviewee’s perceptions.

[Tessa K]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ork-report

What’s the difference between thinking there’s a stigma, and there being a stigma?

In a survey it’s much easier to ask about the interviewee’s perceptions.

That feeling doesn't come from nowhere. Even if there is no direct evidence of stigma in a woman's workplace, the general societal attitude creates one.

Not so long ago there was a stigma around periods - which does still exist but less so. You would never have seen ads for menstrual products on TV. There's a good piece here looking at ads in all media:

Despite the fact the television and sanitary napkins are around the same age, it took until 1972 for the latter to be advertised on the former.... Despite getting the green light, brands were restricted from what they could say on air and could not make any reference to absorbency, cleanliness, anatomy, comfort, insertion, application, duration or efficacy leaving them with just generalised statements. While the TV ban was lifted in 1972, it wasn‘t until 1985 that the word ‘period‘ was used, by non-other than a pre-Friends Courtney Cox.

The first in the UK to depict real period blood, Bodyform’s ’Blood Normal’ sent well-needed shock waves in 2017. Up until that point, references to period blood were only permissible as a watery, blue, Windex-type liquid

https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/10/12 ... 20on%20TV.

Menopause still lags well behind, possibly because there's less money to be made from it. It's not like menopause means you have to buy products every month. Although, as I wrote over ten years ago, some people are doing their best to make money from it. Ladycare magnets you put in your pants. Yes, really.

https://tessera2009.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... gnets.html

I had a quick look and Boots no longer sells them but other sites do, along with magnetic menopause bracelets.

[bagpuss]

A third of women who have suffered symptoms of the menopause say they hid them at work, and many think there remains a stigma around talking about the subject, according to a survey of workers in five countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ork-report

What’s the difference between thinking there’s a stigma, and there being a stigma?

I have the advantage of another woman at work being almost exactly the same age as me and we started getting symptoms at around the same time. She's an outspoken woman and has made me feel more confident about speaking out too as a result. But I definitely don't talk about it to my one reportee - a 30ish single man - as he's definitely shy generally and would probably be uncomfortable if I did. And I only mention the brain fog to close colleagues as there are bound to be people who would think negatively of me if they knew

[Millennie Al]

And I only mention the brain fog to close colleagues as there are bound to be people who would think negatively of me if they knew

Tell them it makes you feel like you have been reduced to the level of a man.

[nezumi]

And I only mention the brain fog to close colleagues as there are bound to be people who would think negatively of me if they knew

Tell them it makes you feel like you have been reduced to the level of a man.

To be honest that exact feeling is why I can't take birth control pills. I'd hate to be a bloke. Whenever I take hormones I somehow turn into a fat, angry bloke.