Male violence and harassment of women

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:17 am

A study in 2014 by academics at Lancaster University looked at the number of reports of abuse to a police force in the north-west of England during three football World Cups. They found that such reports increased by 26% when the national team won or drew, and by 38% when the team lost
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... match-ends
A study published on July 4 from the Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) found that after the final whistle, domestic abuse incidents grow by 5% every two hours, peaking at about 8.5% more incidents than average ten hours after the game started.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/domestic-viol ... 58119.html

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 4946
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by shpalman » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:28 am

https://twitter.com/oliviaatrobey/statu ... 7175303168
A man at @Wimbledon just grabbed me and started screaming sexist abuse at me. I burst into tears as I was really shocked and he was removed for 5 mins by ushers. He was then allowed to return to his seat behind me. I sat in tears scared for the rest of the game.
molto tricky

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am


User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2736
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:17 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
Yup
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Sciolus
Catbabel
Posts: 668
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Sciolus » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:50 pm

Well, thank goodness Couzens has been sacked. This will send a clear message that high-profile murderers aren't tolerated in the Met, even if other sexual offenders are.

User avatar
Grumble
After Pie
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

User avatar
Fishnut
Dorkwood
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:56 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
Hard to do when you're the only one not finding it funny in a classroom of people who are.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2736
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:14 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:56 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
Hard to do when you're the only one not finding it funny in a classroom of people who are.
Yes, I know my son did on occasion pull up other boys at school, but it was probably easier for him than most as he's quite confident on stage and had a reputation for vocally expressing liberal views and is close to his sisters.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Grumble
After Pie
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:32 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:56 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:53 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 am
So f.cking depressing.

https://twitter.com/JessicaValenti/stat ... 4655988736
I think when I was that sort of age there was the feeling that being outrageous was funny in itself. And that being funny was enough to excuse anything. I think one of the best challenges to behaviour like that is (as mentioned in that thread and elsewhere) to ask why something is funny? Takes all the air out of it.
Hard to do when you're the only one not finding it funny in a classroom of people who are.
Of course it is. I feel like one of the voices was trying to challenge the others - the one asking if someone unconscious can consent, in the short clip it’s impossible to know if he actually got his message across and continued to press the point. I think he is standing against the “jokes” of the others and hope that he wasn’t the only one doing so.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

User avatar
Fishnut
Dorkwood
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:23 am

This is a horrifying article. It's a litany of failures to provide justice to rape victims.

The police accused Emily Hunt of pretending it was rape so that she wouldn't be accused of cheating by her boyfriend. (She was single at the time.)

The police wanted to take Hunt's phone the morning after the rape and ended up taking numbers to "check my story out", even though she wasn't ready to tell people what had happened.

The police wanted to take Hunt's clothes, in the middle of the night, without providing replacements. And when she refused labelled her as "difficult".

Days later the police informed Hunt that sex had taken place but when she asked about the risks to her health was told "Oh, you don’t need to worry, they found used condoms on the scene." and that "‘We didn’t have to tell you, it’s just a courtesy."

The toxicology report contained multiple mistakes and concluded that Hunt had not been drugged. Hunt's rapist, Killick, was revealed to have been sober at the time and carrying Viagra and a drug believed to be LSD.

Police arrested Killick but didn't charge him, citing a "lack of evidence" (despite there being CCTV footage of her stumbling and appearing intoxicated and him claiming he thought she "might be mentally ill or on drugs").

Over a year later Hunt was informed that Killick had filmed her, unconscious and naked. She was told there was nothing illegal about this. After much campaigning to get the law changed to make it illegal, she received a letter from the Ministry of Justice explaining actually it was already illegal and eventually a case was brought and the rapist was sentenced, and placed on the sex offender list for 5 years.

In May, Killick stood as an independent candidate in the Hartlepool byelection, revealing that registered sex offenders can run for public office. There is now a petition to change the law to prevent this.

Incredibly, there are some positive steps including one from my local police force (Avon & Somerset) which has a pilot project that is shifting the focus of credibility from the victim to the perpetrator. About bl..dy time, and I really hope it produces good results. As the piece points out, while most men are not rapists, rapists are usually multiple rapists. One study found "some suspects were linked to up to 19 sex crimes (and 60.5% were linked to other types of crime)" while a US study found that unprosecuted rapists committed an average of 5.8 rapes. So prosecuting and convicting these people not only provides justice for their victims but prevents there being new victims.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

User avatar
Grumble
After Pie
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:37 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:23 am
This is a horrifying article. It's a litany of failures to provide justice to rape victims.

The police accused Emily Hunt of pretending it was rape so that she wouldn't be accused of cheating by her boyfriend. (She was single at the time.)

The police wanted to take Hunt's phone the morning after the rape and ended up taking numbers to "check my story out", even though she wasn't ready to tell people what had happened.

The police wanted to take Hunt's clothes, in the middle of the night, without providing replacements. And when she refused labelled her as "difficult".

Days later the police informed Hunt that sex had taken place but when she asked about the risks to her health was told "Oh, you don’t need to worry, they found used condoms on the scene." and that "‘We didn’t have to tell you, it’s just a courtesy."

The toxicology report contained multiple mistakes and concluded that Hunt had not been drugged. Hunt's rapist, Killick, was revealed to have been sober at the time and carrying Viagra and a drug believed to be LSD.

Police arrested Killick but didn't charge him, citing a "lack of evidence" (despite there being CCTV footage of her stumbling and appearing intoxicated and him claiming he thought she "might be mentally ill or on drugs").

Over a year later Hunt was informed that Killick had filmed her, unconscious and naked. She was told there was nothing illegal about this. After much campaigning to get the law changed to make it illegal, she received a letter from the Ministry of Justice explaining actually it was already illegal and eventually a case was brought and the rapist was sentenced, and placed on the sex offender list for 5 years.

In May, Killick stood as an independent candidate in the Hartlepool byelection, revealing that registered sex offenders can run for public office. There is now a petition to change the law to prevent this.

Incredibly, there are some positive steps including one from my local police force (Avon & Somerset) which has a pilot project that is shifting the focus of credibility from the victim to the perpetrator. About bl..dy time, and I really hope it produces good results. As the piece points out, while most men are not rapists, rapists are usually multiple rapists. One study found "some suspects were linked to up to 19 sex crimes (and 60.5% were linked to other types of crime)" while a US study found that unprosecuted rapists committed an average of 5.8 rapes. So prosecuting and convicting these people not only provides justice for their victims but prevents there being new victims.
Why is it so incredibly hard to get police to take an interest? It’s not like rape has only just become bad. I guess this is a big part of what is meant by rape culture.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
After Pie
Posts: 1920
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:10 am

Not just take an interest, but be sympathetic as well. Like you, I just don't understand why rape has become something to be such shits about.
Mike Patton wrote:"You overdo it sometimes. There I am, peeing on Axl Rose’s teleprompter." He looks rueful: "I didn’t really have to do that."

User avatar
JQH
Dorkwood
Posts: 1503
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by JQH » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am

I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
Grumble
After Pie
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:09 am

JQH wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am
I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
Four decades. Not wishing to be trivial about it, it makes it even worse.
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

User avatar
Fishnut
Dorkwood
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:55 am

The horrifying thing to me is that these stories are not extraordinary - they're common. The reason you don't hear much about them is that most most women decide not to say anything because it doesn't do anything except make their lives even harder. Police have always been dismissive of crimes against women. Why do you think reporting rates of rape and sexual assault are so low? It's not because we don't think a crime occurred. It's because we know that even if the police take us seriously (which isn't guaranteed) the system is set up to treat us like liars who are just making things up and who, should we not want our sexual histories paraded in front of complete strangers, are seen as hiding something.

I remember reading this piece by Patrick Stewart way back in 2009 about the domestic violence he saw as a child. This passage has stuck with me ever since,
The situation was barely tolerable: I witnessed terrible things, which I knew were wrong, but there was nowhere to go for help. Worse, there were those who condoned the abuse. I heard police or ambulancemen, standing in our house, say, "She must have provoked him," or, "Mrs Stewart, it takes two to make a fight." They had no idea. The truth is my mother did nothing to deserve the violence she endured. She did not provoke my father, and even if she had, violence is an unacceptable way of dealing with conflict. Violence is a choice a man makes and he alone is responsible for it.
This attitude has not changed. And even if you're lucky enough to encounter an official who doesn't hold these attitudes, the system is still based on them.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

Pianissimo
Bank Butt
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:56 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Pianissimo » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:42 pm

JQH wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am
I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
I’d never seen that before, completely horrifying.

tom p
Dorkwood
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by tom p » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:23 pm

Pianissimo wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:42 pm
JQH wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am
I remember the appalling interrogation (yes, that is what I meant) of a rape victim back in the 80s.

Looks like absolutely nothing has changed in three decades.
I’d never seen that before, completely horrifying.
Jesus. If that was in a drama you'd say that it was unbelievable, that the characters were caricatures.

User avatar
Fishnut
Dorkwood
Posts: 1379
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:04 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:37 pm
More on the huge number of allegations of sexual misconduct against Met police officers.
There was a total of 594 complaints against Met employees between 2012 and 2018, of which 119 were upheld...
More up to date figures from the Metropolitan Police,
About 160 Metropolitan Police officers have been accused of sexual misconduct in the past two years, an investigation has found.

Freedom of Information requests carried out by My London show the police officers had been accused of sexual assault, sexual harassment and other forms of sexual misconduct in 2019 and 2020.

An additional 33 officers had allegations levied against them in the first five months of 2021...

The fresh data reveals the amount of conduct issues voiced by staff or line managers linked to the actions of on- and off-duty officers – with the vast majority of those accused being male police officers...

The data also reveals 104 complaints were made by non-police officers in the general population about the conduct of Met officers in 2019 and 2020.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

Post Reply