Male violence and harassment of women
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
One take is that it depends on how it affects people. Do women feel intimidated by people singing it at games? Has it normalised violence against women? I have no idea how you discover any of that.
Another take is that it’s simply inappropriate to sing songs about murdering women at football matches and be done with it.
Another take is that it’s simply inappropriate to sing songs about murdering women at football matches and be done with it.
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
I wouldn’t have had any idea that the song involved violence if it wasn’t for this article. But then again I don’t know the lyrics apart from “why why why Delilah”bjn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:25 amOne take is that it depends on how it affects people. Do women feel intimidated by people singing it at games? Has it normalised violence against women? I have no idea how you discover any of that.
Another take is that it’s simply inappropriate to sing songs about murdering women at football matches and be done with it.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Having read the lyrics through as if they were a news report, no doubts whatsoever: totally inappropriate.Tessa K wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:27 amAny thoughts on banning the song Delilah at matches?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64511615
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
It's a pretty disgusting song and I doubt it would have been a hit were it not for Tom Jones.
It shows that the world has moved on when considering it won an Ivor Novello award that it almost certainly wouldn't now.
OTOH, I think banning it will just pour flames on the 'culture war'. Better to ram the lyrics down peoples throats. It's a song that won't be forgotten quickly, that's for sure.
It shows that the world has moved on when considering it won an Ivor Novello award that it almost certainly wouldn't now.
OTOH, I think banning it will just pour flames on the 'culture war'. Better to ram the lyrics down peoples throats. It's a song that won't be forgotten quickly, that's for sure.
Time for a big fat one.
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Well I’ve educated myself now, and wow, what a sh.tty song. Do Stoke City fans still sing it as “their” song?Grumble wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:35 amI wouldn’t have had any idea that the song involved violence if it wasn’t for this article. But then again I don’t know the lyrics apart from “why why why Delilah”bjn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:25 amOne take is that it depends on how it affects people. Do women feel intimidated by people singing it at games? Has it normalised violence against women? I have no idea how you discover any of that.
Another take is that it’s simply inappropriate to sing songs about murdering women at football matches and be done with it.
where once I used to scintillate
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
It is a good tune so maybe the fans could change the lyrics to something football/rugby related?
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
There aren’t many songs that are sung unaltered, and those that are it’s normally just the chorus. Those that are sung in full might be problematic for other reasons
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Just wondering whether any operas or ballets have a similar theme...
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Nick Cave is currently busy.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
How many opera arias get sung at football matches? Apart from nessun dorma that is.Trinucleus wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:05 pmJust wondering whether any operas or ballets have a similar theme...
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
I was thinking beyond football matches. There is going to be a point where you have to say this sh.t is not a suitable subject for a song regardless of where it is being sung.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
No we aren't. There's a place for art which recounts unpleasant stories. But that place is not crowd songs at sports matches.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Agreed. As the article I linked to discusses.shpalman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:47 pmNo we aren't. There's a place for art which recounts unpleasant stories. But that place is not crowd songs at sports matches.
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
What the other said. Just because they didn’t sing Nick Cave’s most gruesome murder ballads or NWA’s “f.ck tha Police” in my daughters’ reception class does not mean that we are on a slippery slope.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Using deception to get sex is being proposed as a new crime
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -deception
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -deception
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
I think thats a stupid proposal. Undercover cops should be dealt with by a specific law, and everyone else: caveat emptor.Tessa K wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:25 pmUsing deception to get sex is being proposed as a new crime
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -deception
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
This isn’t the police thread. It seems like a sensible suggestion to me, in general people get away with deception too easily but it’s especially egregious when it comes to a couple of issues, and sex is one of those. Medical treatments is another, but this isn’t the thread for that.noggins wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:49 pmI think thats a stupid proposal. Undercover cops should be dealt with by a specific law, and everyone else: caveat emptor.Tessa K wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:25 pmUsing deception to get sex is being proposed as a new crime
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -deception
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Caveat emptor? Abusers are very good at picking their targets. Don't blame the victims.noggins wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:49 pmI think thats a stupid proposal. Undercover cops should be dealt with by a specific law, and everyone else: caveat emptor.Tessa K wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:25 pmUsing deception to get sex is being proposed as a new crime
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -deception
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Would you send someone to jail for lying about their contraceptive status or religious beliefs?
Jail abusers for abuse, not for lying .
Jail abusers for abuse, not for lying .
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Read the article. Stealthing would be included. Other things that are serious hard limits too, especially if done repeatedly as part of abusive control. Lying is a big part of coercive control, often.
What lies do you think are acceptable in order to get sex?
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
My problem with that is the "get sex" bit, as if sex is something to be 'got' out of someone without desires or agency of their own.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Sadly, some people's desires can be manipulated or abused and some vulnerable people don't always have full agency. Also, stealthing is all about transgressing consent.
Re: Male violence and harassment of women
Have a nice day too.