Male violence and harassment of women

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
User avatar
Cardinal Fang
Fuzzable
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:42 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Cardinal Fang » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:03 pm

Not everyone is in a position to give someone a bed but, from a colleague who's sister escaped an abusive relationship, two things are good that almost anyone can do - make sure they know they can talk to you at any time, and offer to store copies of documents etc so that they have access to them if they need to leave suddenly. Colleague kept things like copies of birth certificates, marriage certificate etc in their locker and made sure that a couple of other people knew the combination of the lock (and the rest of us knew that if it was needed who to phone to get it). They eventually started a bank account then quietly added sister's name to it. Sister couldn't access it directly when in the relationship but was able to sometimes pass cash to colleague who would pay it in. But when sister finally had to leave suddenly, just having access to official docments helped a lot

CF
Image

Aoui
Sindis Poop
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:46 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Aoui » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:35 am

I have helped someone. I have been to a women's shelter to visit when I was not in a position to house the family myself. I have been to court as a witness (not to physical abuse but other things)j. I learned a lot and I'm glad I did it. Distant family became close family and I'll never regret that. I did miss the signs during her next relationship though, partially because I had gone off and started having a life of my own by that point. It's hard and it's complicated. I made a lot of mistakes, but at least I tried. The oldest has told me I made a difference. The kids know that even if I wasn't around much later on that I really care.

purplehaze
Clardic Fug
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:27 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by purplehaze » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:48 am

Such lovely and helpful responses above from Cardinal Fang and Aoui.

I only got access to a shelter because of my friend and I was a councillor at that time.

We had some fun on gaming but the lovely women there were incredibly frightened and traumatised. Even something so small as getting vital papers in order takes a lot of courage.

User avatar
Gfamily
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Gfamily » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:47 pm

FFS, what are we doing that this is even possible?

https://twitter.com/lucymirandaward/sta ... 8082227204
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3010
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:05 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:47 pm
FFS, what are we doing that this is even possible?

https://twitter.com/lucymirandaward/sta ... 8082227204
FFS, indeed
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

temptar
Clardic Fug
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by temptar » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:15 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:47 pm
FFS, what are we doing that this is even possible?

https://twitter.com/lucymirandaward/sta ... 8082227204
We spend their whole life time making the excuse "boys will be boys".

And then they become young men who have never corrected their behaviour.

User avatar
Cardinal Fang
Fuzzable
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:42 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Cardinal Fang » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:27 pm

I used to work in toxicology. The most common drug for drinks to get spiked with is alcohol i.e. people putting a shot of vodka or two in someone's drink. The other ones used to be surprisingly rare in the UK. Don't know of the stats now. But seeing the easy availability of alcohol and it's ability to achieve a creeper's aims i.e. someone "willing" to go to bed with them (even though they're too innebriated to actually give consent), I suspect it hasn't changed that much

CF
Image

User avatar
Gfamily
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Gfamily » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:55 pm

temptar wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:15 pm

We spend their whole life time making the excuse "boys will be boys".

And then they become young men who have never corrected their behaviour.
I'm not sure whether this is actually true, but I get the feeling that when boys used to leave school at 15/16 and go into workplaces, they'd move into an environment with older men who would go some way to putting them right about what's unacceptable behaviour in respect of women - not least because they'd often be trying to court the daughters of their work colleagues.

Was this a thing? I can't see that the same work/social mixing happens so much now.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3010
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:38 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:55 pm
temptar wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:15 pm

We spend their whole life time making the excuse "boys will be boys".

And then they become young men who have never corrected their behaviour.
I'm not sure whether this is actually true, but I get the feeling that when boys used to leave school at 15/16 and go into workplaces, they'd move into an environment with older men who would go some way to putting them right about what's unacceptable behaviour in respect of women - not least because they'd often be trying to court the daughters of their work colleagues.

Was this a thing? I can't see that the same work/social mixing happens so much now.
I suspect that it's now just more visible. Look at sitcoms from even quite recently and how sexual assaults are treated as amusing
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

temptar
Clardic Fug
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by temptar » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:09 am

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:55 pm
temptar wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:15 pm

We spend their whole life time making the excuse "boys will be boys".

And then they become young men who have never corrected their behaviour.
I'm not sure whether this is actually true, but I get the feeling that when boys used to leave school at 15/16 and go into workplaces, they'd move into an environment with older men who would go some way to putting them right about what's unacceptable behaviour in respect of women - not least because they'd often be trying to court the daughters of their work colleagues.

Was this a thing? I can't see that the same work/social mixing happens so much now.
This is naive. Put simply, women just weren't allowed to object as much. Marrying them off to their rapists to prevent scandal wasn't unknown. Domestic violence and marital rape was allowed. Women were possessions.

I would venture to say that we have merely hit a point where women can now complain but in no country is rape or sexual assault much punished. There is an acceptance still on the part of society that women need to suck it up. Also remember that a man accused of rape is presumed innocent until proven guilty which by definition implies a woman must be lying if she says a man raped her. The way rape victims are treated by defence lawyers male and female is often very abusive.

User avatar
individualmember
Snowbonk
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:26 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by individualmember » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:19 am

I’m feeling very uncomfortable that this is being used on Facebook to support the idea that ALL trans people are rapists and misogynists. I got a load of abuse for suggesting that groups who are frequently victims of violence (sexual and non-sexual) ought to broadly support each other.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
After Pie
Posts: 2201
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:49 am

I think it may be best hiving off the discussion into a separate trans thread, to be honest. I'm keen to avoid the two topics getting too mixed up. The spiked article is, of course, appalling, but I think discussion of it here is more of a derail than a contribution.
Cinch?
Cinch!
Cinch?
Cinch?!
Cinch*
<Cinch>
-Cinch-
"Cinch"
Cinch.

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:52 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:49 am
I think it may be best hiving off the discussion into a separate trans thread, to be honest. I'm keen to avoid the two topics getting too mixed up. The spiked article is, of course, appalling, but I think discussion of it here is more of a derail than a contribution.
Agreed. Worth mentioning here to add to the mix but not for a lengthy discussion.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
After Pie
Posts: 2201
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:16 pm

Once again, the Met appears to have failed to realise that Sarah Everard's murderer was a serving police officer, and have offered a solution here that wouldn't help in any way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58978455
Cinch?
Cinch!
Cinch?
Cinch?!
Cinch*
<Cinch>
-Cinch-
"Cinch"
Cinch.

User avatar
individualmember
Snowbonk
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:26 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by individualmember » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:11 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:52 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:49 am
I think it may be best hiving off the discussion into a separate trans thread, to be honest. I'm keen to avoid the two topics getting too mixed up. The spiked article is, of course, appalling, but I think discussion of it here is more of a derail than a contribution.
Agreed. Worth mentioning here to add to the mix but not for a lengthy discussion.
Jolly good idea. I don’t think this is really the most appropriate thread for it, on reflection the association in my mind… well, best discussed in a different thread.

User avatar
sTeamTraen
After Pie
Posts: 2217
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:24 pm
Location: Palma de Mallorca, Spain

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by sTeamTraen » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:01 pm

An interesting article about spiking in general and spiking with a needle in particular.
Something something hammer something something nail

User avatar
JQH
After Pie
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by JQH » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:02 am

There was a young woman on a vox pop on Good Morning Britain this morning who said "It's not just boys. It's girls doing it to girls too" and her mates seemed to be in agreement. Not something I've heard elsewhere.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 5910
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by shpalman » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:13 am

molto tricky

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:12 am

JQH wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:02 am
There was a young woman on a vox pop on Good Morning Britain this morning who said "It's not just boys. It's girls doing it to girls too" and her mates seemed to be in agreement. Not something I've heard elsewhere.
Interesting, thanks.

purplehaze
Clardic Fug
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:27 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by purplehaze » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:20 am

JQH wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:02 am
There was a young woman on a vox pop on Good Morning Britain this morning who said "It's not just boys. It's girls doing it to girls too" and her mates seemed to be in agreement. Not something I've heard elsewhere.
Do you have a link to that? Where was this?

It seems surprising that women are believed when they are involved in violence against men, but when it comes to men doing violence against women the scrutiny is almost as if no one believes for a moment that men could do such a thing.

Also why are boys and girls out in the pubs spiking each other's drinks? Shirley they're adults with identification and all.

User avatar
Tessa K
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:07 pm
Location: Closer than you'd like

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:23 pm

The article says that women reported waking up in their own beds, which struck me as odd as you'd expect attackers to take them somewhere else if rape was the intention.

User avatar
dyqik
Light of Blast
Posts: 4530
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by dyqik » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:41 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:23 pm
The article says that women reported waking up in their own beds, which struck me as odd as you'd expect attackers to take them somewhere else if rape was the intention.
Putting very drunk people in a taxi home or similar after they've been out of it for a while isn't that unusual, and does usually result in them ending up at home in bed. As is them not remembering the last several hours before they got home once they do wake up. Waking up at home doesn't mean something didn't happen before they got there. Or quite possibly the attacker backed out because of other circumstances.

User avatar
Grumble
After Pie
Posts: 2545
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:23 pm

If the only evidence they have is a small injury and a lack of memory I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be put down to being drunk and accidentally hurting yourself?
You’ve got no chutzpah, your organisational skills are lacklustre and your timekeeping is abysmal.

User avatar
JQH
After Pie
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by JQH » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:45 pm

purplehaze wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:20 am
JQH wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:02 am
There was a young woman on a vox pop on Good Morning Britain this morning who said "It's not just boys. It's girls doing it to girls too" and her mates seemed to be in agreement. Not something I've heard elsewhere.
Do you have a link to that? Where was this?
Here's the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkU8NuKYU4o
It seems surprising that women are believed when they are involved in violence against men
Pardon? Nobody mentioned female violence against men.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
Fishnut
After Pie
Posts: 1727
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:09 pm

JQH wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:54 pm
purplehaze wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:52 pm
Good thread and many informative posts.

Lee Hurst, 57, being unfunny and harassing about a teenager. Thankfully loads of people calling him out on it.

https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/statu ... 9476113411
This tweet is from a suspended account
I'm re-reading this thread and thought I'd just have a look at this tweet. The account is unsuspended and the tweet is still up.

In case anyone though that Twitter took sexual harassment against women and girls seriously, there's your answer.

(fwiw, I've reported the tweet)
it's okay to say "I don't know"

Post Reply