Male violence and harassment of women

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Sciolus
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Sciolus » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:25 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:10 pm
He was a licensed firearms holder and also shot two men.
He started off shooting a woman who was known to him in her home; it seems likely, from what limited information we know, that her gender was significant. The others were passers-by in the street; it seems likely their genders were less significant.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:32 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:21 pm
lpm wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:13 pm
And typically suicidal terrorists have a primary goal, then head out and shoot anyone else they encounter. For example the Halle anti-semitic terrorist failed to kill anyone at the synagogue he attacked but went on to murder a passerby and someone in a kebab shop. This British murderer was clearly influenced by the American storyline for mass shootings.
Yes, it looks like his primary target was his first victim, who was a woman he knew. It looks like he then followed the familiar US shooter narrative of shooting several others before killing himself.
Both the Cumbria (2010) and Hungerford (1987) mass shootings involved shooting random people, as did the Port Arthur massacre in Australia (1996). I don't deny that this incident hasn't been influenced by events in the US but shooting random people seems to be a pretty common tactic of people who want to kill lots of people.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:47 pm

It does look like he had a target in mind and then decided to use up the bullets

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by temptar » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:30 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Yes, I agree, they hate Chads as well as Stacys.
Can we please not use their terminology as short hand?

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:49 pm

temptar wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:30 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Yes, I agree, they hate Chads as well as Stacys.
Can we please not use their terminology as short hand?
Fair enough, I won’t use it again

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:44 am

Jake Davison was stripped of the weapon and its licence in December after he was accused of assault, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) says.

It is to examine why Devon and Cornwall Police decided to return them in July.

Davison, 22, shot his 51-year-old mother ... Prior to the shooting, Davison had posted hate-filled online rants about single mothers and about his own mother in particular, calling her "vile, dysfunctional and chaotic". ... Davison made references to "incels" in some online social media videos.

Incels are members of misogynistic online groups of "involuntary celibate" men, who blame women for their sexual failings and who have been linked to a number of violent acts around the world.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58209726

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:07 pm

Sabina Nessa, a primary school teacher, was killed last Friday around 8.30pm. She was walking home through a popular park a few minutes away from her house when she was attacked from behind. Her body was found by a dogwalker a few hours later.

The police are apparently handing out information sheets like this,
Image

FFS, how they can still be giving out this sh.t and think it's productive I don't know. The police officer leading the enquiry said the park she was attacked in was " likely being used by many people from dog walkers to joggers" yet they think that telling women to "stick to busy places" will somehow keep us safe. Do you know what will keep us safe? Getting men to stop thinking that they can attack women with impunity. Getting the court system moving so that people who commit violent crimes are brought to justice in a timely manner. Getting the police and justice systems to take rape and sexual crimes seriously so that women can report harassment and abuse in the knowledge that they will be able to protect other women from these men rather than be re-traumatised and abused by the system that is supposedly there to protect us. Not printing out the contents of a chain email from the 90s.

Apparently a man in his 40s was arrested but later released under further investigation.

News sources here, here and here.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:34 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:07 pm

The police are apparently handing out information sheets like this,
For what its worth the BBC report states that the sheets were handed out by a community group, though the text was based on a police website.
Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:07 pm
Do you know what will keep us safe? Getting men to stop thinking that they can attack women with impunity. Getting the court system moving so that people who commit violent crimes are brought to justice in a timely manner. Getting the police and justice systems to take rape and sexual crimes seriously so that women can report harassment and abuse in the knowledge that they will be able to protect other women from these men rather than be re-traumatised and abused by the system that is supposedly there to protect us.
I agree completely, by far the most effective way of stopping it is for there to be a realistic chance that the perpetrator will face severe consequences for their crime. So long as they are likely to get away with it, it'll keep on happening.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by JQH » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:06 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:07 pm
... Do you know what will keep us safe? Getting men to stop thinking that they can attack women with impunity. Getting the court system moving so that people who commit violent crimes are brought to justice in a timely manner. Getting the police and justice systems to take rape and sexual crimes seriously so that women can report harassment and abuse in the knowledge that they will be able to protect other women from these men rather than be re-traumatised and abused by the system that is supposedly there to protect us. Not printing out the contents of a chain email from the 90s...

Very much this. If potential rapists know that if they commit an offense there is a very high chance they'll be caught and go to jail, they'll have a rethink and remain potential rapists rather than actual rapists.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:05 pm

I agree that action should be swift and decisive, but I’m not at all convinced that a deterrent model works for reducing crime. Locking up offenders will reduce repeat offending though so is absolutely worth doing, and we should have more effective police action such as actually processing rape kits to help identify offenders before they become repeat offenders.

Not sure how to stop the rapes and assaults in the first place though, that will take a societal shift.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:09 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... SApp_Other

A Canadian man was outraged that his wife got a vaccine without his permission, so punched a nurse. Clearly there are men who still think their wives are possessions.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jdc » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:48 am

Grumble wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:05 pm
I agree that action should be swift and decisive, but I’m not at all convinced that a deterrent model works for reducing crime. Locking up offenders will reduce repeat offending though so is absolutely worth doing, and we should have more effective police action such as actually processing rape kits to help identify offenders before they become repeat offenders.

Not sure how to stop the rapes and assaults in the first place though, that will take a societal shift.
There's a fair bit of research into deterrence. I think the tl;dr is that it's the realistic chance of being caught that has a deterrent effect rather than the severity of the potential consequences.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:59 am

jdc wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:48 am
Grumble wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:05 pm
I agree that action should be swift and decisive, but I’m not at all convinced that a deterrent model works for reducing crime. Locking up offenders will reduce repeat offending though so is absolutely worth doing, and we should have more effective police action such as actually processing rape kits to help identify offenders before they become repeat offenders.

Not sure how to stop the rapes and assaults in the first place though, that will take a societal shift.
There's a fair bit of research into deterrence. I think the tl;dr is that it's the realistic chance of being caught that has a deterrent effect rather than the severity of the potential consequences.
Yes, there’s lots of work been done on how better policing can reduce crime rates. Which is a different from just increasing sentences.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Martin_B » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:26 am

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:07 pm
Do you know what will keep us safe? Getting men to stop thinking that they can attack women with impunity. Getting the court system moving so that people who commit violent crimes are brought to justice in a timely manner. Getting the police and justice systems to take rape and sexual crimes seriously so that women can report harassment and abuse in the knowledge that they will be able to protect other women from these men rather than be re-traumatised and abused by the system that is supposedly there to protect us.
I 100% agree with of this. However, until society changes such that men don't think this way, things like being aware of your surroundings are steps which women can take which may keep them safer. (Walking against the flow and not walking alone at night may be much more difficult to comply with.)

What certainly should never happen, but seems to with distressing regularity, is that men use the contents of the list as some sort of justification that any women who don't follow the 'rules' is somehow asking for it and that they are justified in their actions.

This is a recent case: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... by-support where a man had got into an altercation with a woman in a bar, calling her a sl.t and making remarks about her body because of the way she was dressed. They saw each other later in a different bar and the man punched the woman; something he admitted to. But he was allowed to have the assault quashed from his record because the judge ruled that the man was from a Sydney public school and "the way the woman was dressed would be perceived as provocative to a former student". (I'm assuming from the context that the judge was another former student.) Fortunately this case is getting heard about because people are speaking out about the outrageous injustice.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:11 am

Martin_B wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:26 am
Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:07 pm
Do you know what will keep us safe? Getting men to stop thinking that they can attack women with impunity. Getting the court system moving so that people who commit violent crimes are brought to justice in a timely manner. Getting the police and justice systems to take rape and sexual crimes seriously so that women can report harassment and abuse in the knowledge that they will be able to protect other women from these men rather than be re-traumatised and abused by the system that is supposedly there to protect us.
I 100% agree with of this. However, until society changes such that men don't think this way, things like being aware of your surroundings are steps which women can take which may keep them safer. (Walking against the flow and not walking alone at night may be much more difficult to comply with.)
The police web site had some sensible advice which would help people avoid crimes like being robbed while walking down the street. I do some of those things anyway. But those kinds of things are unlikely to prevent a murder.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:27 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:11 am
Martin_B wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:26 am
Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:07 pm
Do you know what will keep us safe? Getting men to stop thinking that they can attack women with impunity. Getting the court system moving so that people who commit violent crimes are brought to justice in a timely manner. Getting the police and justice systems to take rape and sexual crimes seriously so that women can report harassment and abuse in the knowledge that they will be able to protect other women from these men rather than be re-traumatised and abused by the system that is supposedly there to protect us.
I 100% agree with of this. However, until society changes such that men don't think this way, things like being aware of your surroundings are steps which women can take which may keep them safer. (Walking against the flow and not walking alone at night may be much more difficult to comply with.)
The police web site had some sensible advice which would help people avoid crimes like being robbed while walking down the street. I do some of those things anyway. But those kinds of things are unlikely to prevent a murder.
Things like "be aware of your surroundings" are absolutely sensible things for people to do. But, they're things women do already. We have been told to do this stuff all our lives. Telling us this stuff as if it's supposed to be new information isn't helpful, it's deeply patronising.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:34 am

Fishnut wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:27 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:11 am
Martin_B wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:26 am


I 100% agree with of this. However, until society changes such that men don't think this way, things like being aware of your surroundings are steps which women can take which may keep them safer. (Walking against the flow and not walking alone at night may be much more difficult to comply with.)
The police web site had some sensible advice which would help people avoid crimes like being robbed while walking down the street. I do some of those things anyway. But those kinds of things are unlikely to prevent a murder.
Things like "be aware of your surroundings" are absolutely sensible things for people to do. But, they're things women do already. We have been told to do this stuff all our lives. Telling us this stuff as if it's supposed to be new information isn't helpful, it's deeply patronising.
Yes, I agree that people will mostly do those things anyway.

Though speaking as a parent those are things that need to be taught to children, and mine at least would respond better to being given advice by the police than from their parents.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:00 am

When I was out earlier, a woman with very large breasts was walking towards me. Two guys coming up behind me commented very loudly on them. I turned and glared at them. We ended up having a conversation about how this is not appropriate. One of them had the decency to be embarrassed, the other was more defensive but eventually took my point. I wouldn't normally do this but it was daytime on a busy street and I'd just been in the gym so I was feeling feisty.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by JQH » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:36 pm

jdc wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:48 am
Grumble wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:05 pm
I agree that action should be swift and decisive, but I’m not at all convinced that a deterrent model works for reducing crime. Locking up offenders will reduce repeat offending though so is absolutely worth doing, and we should have more effective police action such as actually processing rape kits to help identify offenders before they become repeat offenders.

Not sure how to stop the rapes and assaults in the first place though, that will take a societal shift.
There's a fair bit of research into deterrence. I think the tl;dr is that it's the realistic chance of being caught that has a deterrent effect rather than the severity of the potential consequences.
Which was Fishnut's point: if the plods and CJS took assaults on women more seriously and caught more attackers it would discourage other attackers
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:42 pm

Wayne Couzens is in court for sentencing today for the kidnapping, rape and murder of Sarah Everard. It has been revealed that he used his police ID card and the covid restrictions to "arrest" her in plain sight of witnesses.

Explain to me how any woman is supposed to trust the police?

Let's not forget that Couzen's nickname among his colleagues was "the rapist". They knew about him but they didn't care. They didn't care that there was a man who was clearly a risk to women in a position of authority and power and he was allowed to remain in that position until after he'd taken a life.

And this isn't "one bad apple". It's indicative of a systemic problem with the police. The Femicide Census reported yesterday that at least 15 serving or former police officers have killed women since 2009, the majority of whom were their partners. Is it any wonder that the police are so useless when it comes to violence against women?

So right now all I can think is f.ck the police. f.ck them all. They aren't there to protect us - sure, there may be the odd one of two - but the SYSTEM is not on our side. It gives power to men who abuse it to abuse and hurt and rape and kill women. And all their colleagues do is give bland apologies about bad apples as if that's supposed to be sufficient. ONE BAD APPLE SPOILS THE WHOLE BARREL. The point of that saying isn't that one bad apple doesn't matter, it's the complete opposite - that one bad apple, if not removed but instead left to rot will infect everything else. If you ignore that bad apple you all get tainted. You are all complicit. Everyone who laughed at his nickname, who ignored female colleagues concerns, who decided not to investigate the claims of indecent exposure, they are all complicit and all responsible for Sarah's murder.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:00 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:34 pm
Fishnut wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:24 am
Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:25 am
PC Wayne Couzens has pleaded guilty to kidnapping and rape of Sarah Everard.

He has also "accepted responsibility" for her death but there's nothing about a murder/manslaughter charge in the articles I've seen so far. According to a reporter,


I don't understand why and I can't find any answers so far so if anyone knows what's going on please explain!
He's now pleaded guilty to her murder too.
It can now be reported that Couzens hired a car and bought a roll of self-adhesive film days before the murder...

On 8 March, the day he was due on duty, he reported in sick. The next day, police arrested Couzens at 19:50 - 39 minutes after he had wiped the data from his mobile phone.
That 39 minutes is so dodgy. Or maybe he realised the game was up.
On the delay in arresting him, Fiona Hamilton from The Times has this,
Met police linked Couzens to abduction and officers went to his home at 5.45pm on March 9. They did not immediately enter as they wanted to be cautious. Couzens deleted his phone history at 7.11pm, and Met entered house at 7.45pm
"They wanted to be cautious" because, despite having identified Couzens as having hired the car that was used in Sarah's abduction. Why they wanted to be so cautious about arresting a suspect in a murder investigation that they waited 2 hours outside his house before entering, I don't know. What I do know is that the delay allowed Couzens to delete information that, while fortunately wasn't needed for the investigation, could well have been.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:10 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:00 pm
"They wanted to be cautious" because, despite having identified Couzens as having hired the car that was used in Sarah's abduction. Why they wanted to be so cautious about arresting a suspect in a murder investigation that they waited 2 hours outside his house before entering, I don't know. What I do know is that the delay allowed Couzens to delete information that, while fortunately wasn't needed for the investigation, could well have been.
I'm just speculating, but they may have been concerned that he might have had a gun on him.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:21 pm

Is a two hour delay normally how they deal with suspected gun possession? Mark Duggan got more like 2 seconds.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:24 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:21 pm
Is a two hour delay normally how they deal with suspected gun possession? Mark Duggan got more like 2 seconds.
Different if someone is inside their home. If he had a gun Couzens could shoot at officers trying to enter before Couzens could be shot by the police.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:29 pm

Suppose so.

Nevertheless, in general
Fishnut wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:42 pm
Wayne Couzens is in court for sentencing today for the kidnapping, rape and murder of Sarah Everard. It has been revealed that he used his police ID card and the covid restrictions to "arrest" her in plain sight of witnesses.

Explain to me how any woman is supposed to trust the police?

Let's not forget that Couzen's nickname among his colleagues was "the rapist". They knew about him but they didn't care. They didn't care that there was a man who was clearly a risk to women in a position of authority and power and he was allowed to remain in that position until after he'd taken a life.

And this isn't "one bad apple". It's indicative of a systemic problem with the police. The Femicide Census reported yesterday that at least 15 serving or former police officers have killed women since 2009, the majority of whom were their partners. Is it any wonder that the police are so useless when it comes to violence against women?

So right now all I can think is f.ck the police. f.ck them all. They aren't there to protect us - sure, there may be the odd one of two - but the SYSTEM is not on our side. It gives power to men who abuse it to abuse and hurt and rape and kill women. And all their colleagues do is give bland apologies about bad apples as if that's supposed to be sufficient. ONE BAD APPLE SPOILS THE WHOLE BARREL. The point of that saying isn't that one bad apple doesn't matter, it's the complete opposite - that one bad apple, if not removed but instead left to rot will infect everything else. If you ignore that bad apple you all get tainted. You are all complicit. Everyone who laughed at his nickname, who ignored female colleagues concerns, who decided not to investigate the claims of indecent exposure, they are all complicit and all responsible for Sarah's murder.
this whole case seems to be an extremely damning revelation of the "thin blue line" protecting officers known to be dangerous. I can't see how the police are supposed to be fit-for-purpose dealing with sexual assaults.
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