Male violence and harassment of women

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jimbob
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:38 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:20 pm
From the BBC
A woman who was pictured being arrested at the Sarah Everard vigil has said "about 50" police officers have since contacted her via a dating app, leaving her "terrified"... She said that since the arrest, "about 50" police officers and security guards had approached her via the dating app. "They were all in uniform on their profiles or it said 'I'm a police officer'," she said.
They really don't get it

which also is why Raab's comment wasn't mere mis-speaking but fundamentally failing to acknowledge that many violent crimes against women are driven by ideology (i.e. hate crimes)
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:38 pm

Another case of institutional sexism

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58809585
The culture in an armed policing unit within Police Scotland was "horrific" and an "absolute boys' club", an employment tribunal has found.

It accepted evidence of a "sexist culture" in the armed response vehicles unit (ARV) in the east of Scotland.

Former firearms officer Rhona Malone raised the tribunal against the force alleging sex discrimination and victimisation.

Her victimisation claims succeeded but the discrimination claim was dismissed.

It also found that Ms Malone was an "entirely credible and reliable witness", but the evidence of her former superior, Insp Keith Warhurst, was "contradictory, confusing and ultimately incredible".

Insp Warhurst sent an email in January 2018 saying two female firearms officers should not be deployed together when there were sufficient male staff on duty.
Again, how many convictions does this bring into doubt?
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Fishnut » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:57 pm

Good god.
In its judgement, the tribunal accepted evidence that there was an "absolute boys' club culture" within the ARV which was "horrific". It also found:
- Sgt Rachel Coates, a former colleague of Ms Malone, was told by the chief firearms instructor that women should not become AFOs "because they menstruated and that affected their temperament".
- When Sgt Coates asked if women AFOs could wear trousers and a top, rather than a one-piece, so it would be easier to go to the toilet, the chief firearms instructor swore at her.
- Insp Warhurst posted images of topless women to a WhatsApp group of male sergeants within the Fettes Team 1. A colleague messaged him and told him it was inappropriate.
- Another former colleague of Ms Malone overheard Insp Warhust calling one of the female Police Investigations and Review Commissioner (Pirc) agents "a wee lassie".
- Sgt Coates and another colleague, Constable Zara Taylor, left the ARV division as they were "not confident that the sexist culture...was going to change and felt their sex was always going to be a barrier to promotion".

The tribunal also accepted that Insp Warhurst sent an email saying two female officers should not be deployed together.

In the email he referred to "the obvious differences in physical capacity" and said it made "more sense from a search, balance of testosterone perspective".

But the tribunal found that the instruction was not implemented, as staff were told it did not represent the views of senior management. As a result of this, it dismissed the direct discrimination claim.
How the hell does "they didn't implement this obviously discriminatory and sexist instruction" mean that there wasn't direct discrimination?
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:05 pm

These are all clear examples of what are known as 'hypermascilinized' environments. They are a usual feature of groups which are all male or in which men are are a majority and make up all or most of the leaders, and in which the men pursue roles associated with masculinity (eg emphasizing bravery, physical strength and fighting against an enemy). What you're describing in the UK police, especially the elite units, is also found in the military or sports teams, and they are notorious for misogyny and bullying. I've even heard similar about some aspects of humanitarian NGOs - groups of tough men who get sent off to dangerous places and have very sexist attitudes.

To go back to the discussion on culture, what research there is on perpetrators of sexual offenses suggests that peer groups are the most important influence upon men. When groups of men reinforce each others' sexism, and exclude or punish anyone who doesn't participate, the result is what you've described. Or much worse - for example levels of rape within the US armed forces.

This isn't to say that hypermasculinized environments are inevitable or present in every group of men doing masculine things. But IMHO getting rid of them where they do exist takes leadership that is committed and effective. New recruits need to be steered toward different values and men who don't measure up need to be removed. What doesn't appear to work is just adding women so long as they are a minority and aren't in positions of authority.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by lpm » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:09 pm

I guess getting men to take a turn doing the minutes isn't going to cut it, huh.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:09 pm
I guess getting men to take a turn doing the minutes isn't going to cut it, huh.
Nope.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Gfamily » Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:59 am

Another "gross misconduct" by police officer.
At least this was given some sanction

https://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/c ... al-8392950

Took 10 years to resolve, and he keeps the promotion achieved in the meantime.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by bagpuss » Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:31 am

Gfamily wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:59 am
Another "gross misconduct" by police officer.
At least this was given some sanction

https://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/c ... al-8392950

Took 10 years to resolve, and he keeps the promotion achieved in the meantime.
I don't understand what is going on with these police officers who get to keep their jobs after being found to have committed gross misconduct. In every job I've ever worked in, gross misconduct means you clear out your personal belongings under supervision and are escorted out of the building right there and then, never darken our doors again thank you very much and goodbye. Every contract I've ever had has been very clear that for most things there's a disciplinary procedure to be followed with warnings and so on but for gross misconduct, there's no such process (other than fair hearing and appeal or whatever) and you're immediately out on your ear. How is this not the case for the police?

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by discovolante » Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:47 am

bagpuss wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:31 am
Gfamily wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:59 am
Another "gross misconduct" by police officer.
At least this was given some sanction

https://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/c ... al-8392950

Took 10 years to resolve, and he keeps the promotion achieved in the meantime.
I don't understand what is going on with these police officers who get to keep their jobs after being found to have committed gross misconduct. In every job I've ever worked in, gross misconduct means you clear out your personal belongings under supervision and are escorted out of the building right there and then, never darken our doors again thank you very much and goodbye. Every contract I've ever had has been very clear that for most things there's a disciplinary procedure to be followed with warnings and so on but for gross misconduct, there's no such process (other than fair hearing and appeal or whatever) and you're immediately out on your ear. How is this not the case for the police?
Um I would have thought employers would potentially get themselves in difficulty if they sacked someone without an investigation/procedure - not to say it doesn't happen on a regular basis - but they could immediately suspend someone pending the outcome of the investigation.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by jimbob » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:15 am

discovolante wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:47 am
bagpuss wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:31 am
Gfamily wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:59 am
Another "gross misconduct" by police officer.
At least this was given some sanction

https://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/c ... al-8392950

Took 10 years to resolve, and he keeps the promotion achieved in the meantime.
I don't understand what is going on with these police officers who get to keep their jobs after being found to have committed gross misconduct. In every job I've ever worked in, gross misconduct means you clear out your personal belongings under supervision and are escorted out of the building right there and then, never darken our doors again thank you very much and goodbye. Every contract I've ever had has been very clear that for most things there's a disciplinary procedure to be followed with warnings and so on but for gross misconduct, there's no such process (other than fair hearing and appeal or whatever) and you're immediately out on your ear. How is this not the case for the police?
Um I would have thought employers would potentially get themselves in difficulty if they sacked someone without an investigation/procedure - not to say it doesn't happen on a regular basis - but they could immediately suspend someone pending the outcome of the investigation.
That's how I read Bagpuss' post.

Fair hearing and appeal but no warnings for gross misconduct, unlike normal disciplinary action - for example timekeeping.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by bagpuss » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:42 am

jimbob wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:15 am
discovolante wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:47 am
bagpuss wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:31 am


I don't understand what is going on with these police officers who get to keep their jobs after being found to have committed gross misconduct. In every job I've ever worked in, gross misconduct means you clear out your personal belongings under supervision and are escorted out of the building right there and then, never darken our doors again thank you very much and goodbye. Every contract I've ever had has been very clear that for most things there's a disciplinary procedure to be followed with warnings and so on but for gross misconduct, there's no such process (other than fair hearing and appeal or whatever) and you're immediately out on your ear. How is this not the case for the police?
Um I would have thought employers would potentially get themselves in difficulty if they sacked someone without an investigation/procedure - not to say it doesn't happen on a regular basis - but they could immediately suspend someone pending the outcome of the investigation.
That's how I read Bagpuss' post.

Fair hearing and appeal but no warnings for gross misconduct, unlike normal disciplinary action - for example timekeeping.
Yes, that's what I meant, sorry if it was unclear. So for any other misconduct, there's a series of warnings and action plans, etc, etc, which may eventually progress to dismissal if the misconduct continues or is repeated too many times, despite all efforts by managers to address it with the employee. Whereas for gross misconduct yes, you get a fair hearing and the right to appeal but if the complaint of misconduct is upheld then you're out on your ear, no warnings or chance to improve. And once the gross misconduct is either admitted to or is deemed to have happened after fair hearing, they are escorted out of the building, stopping only to pick up personal belongings. And I've always had contracts that make it abundantly clear that that is the result of gross misconduct - you are sacked, end of story.

And yet, there seem to be cases in the police where gross misconduct is deemed proven but no or minimal action is taken, or it's just a written warning. In the case Gfamily linked to, it seems to have only come to light several years after the event because the woman did not make a complaint at the time, and so the officer's apparently blameless record since then seems to have been taken into account. But I'm fairly sure I remember other cases where gross misconduct has been upheld and the officer has not been dismissed. I couldn't think of any specifics so I did a search which came up with this which shows that in the Met, over the 3 years from 16/17 to 18/19, very nearly 10% of gross misconduct cases where the misconduct was proven led to people keeping their jobs. And a quarter of those had no action taken against them at all.


(Edit - to fix could to couldn't)

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:54 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:05 pm
These are all clear examples of what are known as 'hypermascilinized' environments. They are a usual feature of groups which are all male or in which men are are a majority and make up all or most of the leaders, and in which the men pursue roles associated with masculinity (eg emphasizing bravery, physical strength and fighting against an enemy). What you're describing in the UK police, especially the elite units, is also found in the military or sports teams, and they are notorious for misogyny and bullying. I've even heard similar about some aspects of humanitarian NGOs - groups of tough men who get sent off to dangerous places and have very sexist attitudes.

To go back to the discussion on culture, what research there is on perpetrators of sexual offenses suggests that peer groups are the most important influence upon men. When groups of men reinforce each others' sexism, and exclude or punish anyone who doesn't participate, the result is what you've described. Or much worse - for example levels of rape within the US armed forces.

This isn't to say that hypermasculinized environments are inevitable or present in every group of men doing masculine things. But IMHO getting rid of them where they do exist takes leadership that is committed and effective. New recruits need to be steered toward different values and men who don't measure up need to be removed. What doesn't appear to work is just adding women so long as they are a minority and aren't in positions of authority.
What I've been hoping to see out of the #metoo fallout was something on the almost definite widespread ritual sexual harassment in journalism. It ticks so many boxes for the sort of environment where women will suffer. Journalists tend to see themselves as Super-Intrepid Discoverers of Truth and Dogged Campaigners for Justice and so on, which I think feed into the "roles associated with masculinity" that you mention. The environment is one where there are a lot of men at the top, where opportunity and promotion are often gatekept by single (male) individuals, many of whom, let's be honest, are total a..eholes. It's also one where there is a strong culture of secrecy, of omerta, where people who want to get ahead need to shut the f.ck up and accept whatever is thrown at them. What there also is in journalism, perhaps more than any other profession, is a near-universal unwillingness to shine a light on their own practices which stands in sharp contrast to their judgements of everyone else.

If there was some sort of omnipotent CCTV playback function, I absolutely guarantee that if you could look into the cultures in newspapers up and down the country, you'd find countless examples of women journalists being sexually harassed, discriminated against, and forced to leave a profession they love because of c.nts. My guess is that the reason we haven't seen a reckoning on this front is because the same people who control women's progression also control the news we see, and they don't want us to see that.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Grumble » Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:57 am

bagpuss wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:42 am
jimbob wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:15 am
discovolante wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:47 am


Um I would have thought employers would potentially get themselves in difficulty if they sacked someone without an investigation/procedure - not to say it doesn't happen on a regular basis - but they could immediately suspend someone pending the outcome of the investigation.
That's how I read Bagpuss' post.

Fair hearing and appeal but no warnings for gross misconduct, unlike normal disciplinary action - for example timekeeping.
Yes, that's what I meant, sorry if it was unclear. So for any other misconduct, there's a series of warnings and action plans, etc, etc, which may eventually progress to dismissal if the misconduct continues or is repeated too many times, despite all efforts by managers to address it with the employee. Whereas for gross misconduct yes, you get a fair hearing and the right to appeal but if the complaint of misconduct is upheld then you're out on your ear, no warnings or chance to improve. And once the gross misconduct is either admitted to or is deemed to have happened after fair hearing, they are escorted out of the building, stopping only to pick up personal belongings. And I've always had contracts that make it abundantly clear that that is the result of gross misconduct - you are sacked, end of story.

And yet, there seem to be cases in the police where gross misconduct is deemed proven but no or minimal action is taken, or it's just a written warning. In the case Gfamily linked to, it seems to have only come to light several years after the event because the woman did not make a complaint at the time, and so the officer's apparently blameless record since then seems to have been taken into account. But I'm fairly sure I remember other cases where gross misconduct has been upheld and the officer has not been dismissed. I couldn't think of any specifics so I did a search which came up with this which shows that in the Met, over the 3 years from 16/17 to 18/19, very nearly 10% of gross misconduct cases where the misconduct was proven led to people keeping their jobs. And a quarter of those had no action taken against them at all.


(Edit - to fix could to couldn't)
There was a man at my place of work (I may have said this earlier in the thread) who was guilty of gross misconduct, he was viewing (violent) p.rn at work on non-networked computers. There was an investigation which established what had happened and he was taken into an office and asked to leave.

What we certainly didn’t do was give him a written warning and allow him to carry on.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Stephanie » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:15 pm

Someone at one of my workplaces (though before I was there) also got a gross misconduct for viewing p.rn at work. And it was pretty much a pack up your things, escorted from the premises ending.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:50 pm

So apparently the solution to the police murdering women is a new service where women can register their walk home with the police. I'm sure the people who operate that service will not be in any way tempted to peek at the data and find where their ex is living now.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Tessa K » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:00 pm

And now there's going to be an 888 number. Easier to spend £50m than to sort out the police and male violence, I guess.

Making us responsible for our own safety sucks. Also, Priti Patel is backing it so it must be rubbish.
BT chief executive Philip Jansen has proposed the “walk me home” service — potentially with the number 888 — to allow vulnerable people to have their journeys tracked and an alert triggered if they do not reach home by a set time.

The scheme would allow users to download a mobile phone app and then enter their home address and other regular destinations. Before walking, the user would start the app or call or text 888 which would give them an expected journey time and complete tracking via GPS.

Automatic alerts would then be sent to emergency contacts such as friends and family if the person failed to reach home by the given time, before alerting the police. ... The project could reportedly cost as little as £50m.
https://inews.co.uk/news/new-emergency- ... sa-1240838

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by temptar » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:09 pm

Be better to track all men too so that we can find out which man raped any given woman via location data. I mean, if women have to be location tracked, let’s just track everyone.

Oh wait….

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Stephanie » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:44 am

god, they can absolutely f.ck off expecting an app to solve everything, the c.nts
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by bagpuss » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:59 am

Stephanie wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:44 am
god, they can absolutely f.ck off expecting an app to solve everything, the c.nts
Exactly. You can just imagine the meeting where they decided to come up with this idea, can't you? Where all the good ideas, especially the ones from the women, were shouted down because they sounded a bit difficult and then Johnson or Raab suggested an app and the loudest people jumped on it as a "brilliant" idea, while all the women put their heads in their hands and resigned themselves to yet another 5 years of nothing actually being done.


What's more, there are several apps that do stuff like this already for people who want to use them, so it's not really adding anything anyway.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by JQH » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:29 am

It does look like the usual give the appearance of doing something, without tackling the problem. The structural misogyny in the Met (and other forces) will not be tackled because the government need to keep the police on side because they need them to suppress the rest of us when things go to sh.t.

See also the multi decade refusal to investigate the Hillsborough killings.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by plodder » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:23 am

lpm wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:28 pm
jimbob wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:28 pm
Yup that makes sense. Especially from what you have previously posted about the non-consensual nature of a lot of the manufacture of p.rnography
It's not just the illegal non-consensual and under-age material.

The p.rnography industry routinely shows men fictionalised depictions of illegal sexual assaults and sexual harassment. If anyone is genuinely concerned about the prevalence of indecent exposure then they should be concerned about videos depicting indecent exposure where the woman victim responds with delight at the sight of a penis. If you worry about street harassment, also worry about videos where men go up to women in the street and offer money for sex, with the woman acting out reluctance or pretending to walk away before eventually agreeing to sex. Recently someone on this forum made a joke about another common trope in p.rnography, that of a taxi driver exploiting a woman passenger for sex which she soon becomes eager for. How does that trope make women taking a taxi late at night feel?

In recent years p.rnography has been seen as "sex positive". Part of the new era of better sexual relationships, more adventurous sex lives and acceptance of "non-conventional" sexual activities. This might be true.

But p.rnography must also be seen as "assault positive". For violent men and harassing men, much of what they watch is a direct endorsement of what they want to do. It normalises their behaviour and makes them think all men are like them.
Given the enormous increase in the availability of p.rn over the last couple of decades, do we see any statistical artefacts that show to what extent p.rn influences anti-social and criminal attitudes or behaviour? (Say, 1990 as a pre-internet baseline). Is there anything to show that p.rn is any more harmful to public morality than soap operas, literature, art etc)?

Google threw up this recent meta-analysis which suggests there's not much of a link: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10 ... 8020942754

eta here's the abstract:
Whether p.rnography contributes to sexual aggression in real life has been the subject of dozens of studies over multiple decades. Nevertheless, scholars have not come to a consensus about whether effects are real. The current meta-analysis examined experimental, correlational, and population studies of the p.rnography/sexual aggression link dating back from the 1970s to the current time. Methodological weaknesses were very common in this field of research. Nonetheless, evidence did not suggest that nonviolent p.rnography was associated with sexual aggression. Evidence was particularly weak for longitudinal studies, suggesting an absence of long-term effects. Violent p.rnography was weakly correlated with sexual aggression, although the current evidence was unable to distinguish between a selection effect as compared to a socialization effect. Studies that employed more best practices tended to provide less evidence for relationships whereas studies with citation bias, an indication of researcher expectancy effects, tended to have higher effect sizes. Population studies suggested that increased availability of p.rnography is associated with reduced sexual aggression at the population level. More studies with improved practices and preregistration would be welcome.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by lpm » Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:34 pm

Firstly, it's unknown and probably unknowable. There's no valid data for something like indecent exposure. Reporting rates are far too low and any change in actual incidents could be swamped by change in reporting rates. Don't do the Jobbins trick of refusing to contemplate things until evidence is provided, for something where evidence cannot exist.

Secondly, general crime has fallen since the 1990s. Looked at in isolation, a constant level of crime A would suggest nothing to see, yet there would be questions if B, C and D were falling. For example, criminal damage has probably halved since the 1990s, so has indecent exposure halved? Violent muggings has similarly seen a sharp fall, but have violent sexual assaults fallen correspondingly? We don't know because of the lack of data. Meanwhile homicide rates haven't changed much since the 1990s, thus increasing as a proportion of total crime, making the question of extreme violence very murky.

Thirdly, you are implicitly viewing this through the prism of the impact of p.rnography on men. As always, the abstract you posted assumes the male default when talking about "population" or "real life". There are two quite different questions: the impact on men from men viewing p.rnography and the impact on women from men viewing p.rnography. For example, a study might suggest there's no impact on sexual assaults from men viewing p.rnography where a man penetrates a sleeping woman and she wakes up eager for sex. But that does not mean there's no impact on women from the ubiquity of such p.rnography or on victims knowing men watch this material. It's not clear what is termed violent vs nonviolent in these studies, and whether women would have the same division as men when making these categorisations.

Fourthly, the question of whether p.rnography is "harmful to public morality" is clearly more pertinent than an episode of Neighbours or nudes on the wall of the National Gallery. Nowhere else is there anything comparative to the MindGeek set of websites that show "vanilla" p.rnography right alongside choking p.rnography, schoolgirl harassment p.rnography or fake casting agent p.rnography. There's literally a single click or search bar between people getting naked and people acting out assaults.
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by plodder » Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:44 pm

I’ve no axe to grind here but I believe many of your points are addressed to some extent in the research. I do believe that p.rn has an impact to our attitudes, but I think it’s subtle and highly complicated.

I did expect the rapid spread of all types of hardcore p.rn to have had some pretty profound effects on our culture and I do wonder if the modern willingness to have mature conversations about sexual orientation etc is linked to this.

I am surprised that the widespread sexual objectification of women in p.rn doesn’t *seem* to be a more dominant narrative in our attitudes, and I wonder if p.rn is more closely aligned to other forms of entertainment than we might have expected, given how taboo is still is. In other words, it’s maybe as bad as Eastenders or a violent movie, but not worse.

I don’t want to derail what has been a really interesting thread, just wanted to highlight the studies really.

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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:01 pm

In an age where superhero films and sitcoms and music lyrics are heavily scrutinised over how they portray women, p.rn clearly stands out as an area where damaging portrayals are highly prevalent, which I think is worth challenging for its own sake. p.rn is mainstream enough to be part of society's culture, even if we don't talk about the latest warehouse orgy romp as much as the new Ghostbusters or whatever.

I remember reading an argument about MMR vaccines, with folk responding to antivaxxers by saying that as we'd gone from a time where nobody got MMR to a time when everybody had it, we'd expect any negative effects to be easily detectable. The same thing has happened with p.rn - kids in the old days used to have to scour local hedgerows to find pictures of boobs, whereas now everyone can access pretty much anything all the time, and it's to a certain extent unavoidable.

But I don't know if crime rates is the obvious place to start with cultural artefacts. How do women feel about how women are portrayed? How are they treated during consensual sex? During non-sexual encounters (probably especially online ones, where it's much easier to expose yourself to somebody without getting caught)? If basically all men are regularly looking at content many women find problematic, we've got problems whether or not anything illegal happens.
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lpm
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Re: Male violence and harassment of women

Post by lpm » Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:27 pm

If Eastenders explored racism, it would do it with some depth, showing the motivations of the perpetrator and the impact on the victims. Maybe the overt racism in p.rnography has no impact. No effect would be surprising, to me at least, but even so it's pretty shocking how lefty p.rnography apologists force themselves to ignore a level of racism that has no place in 2021 society. Is the answer really: "Meh, doesn't have a discernable impact, it's all fine"?

I can't see how p.rnography can be considered more closely aligned to other forms of entertainment than we'd expect. We would find racism on TV or the movies to be abhorent, yet casually accept it in p.rnography. I think it's pretty clear that different standards are applied.

The other day there was someone on the radio talking about the rapiness of Connery's Bond in the 1960s - in one movie (Thunderball I think it was) he manipulates a woman to have sex with him or he'd get her fired. This was deemed unacceptable to today's audiences and an indicator of how far we've improved. And yet this exact scenario is available to all, a couple of clicks away from here, presented with casual acceptance and unremarked on. It's so normalised it's unremarkable on one part of the internet, yet considered beyond the pale if you watch a Bond movie on another part of the internet.
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