I've been off having a little think about this thread and about what constructive practical advice can be given to the men who are reading and participating. Without wanting to stereotype, I'm getting the general sense than most of the men here are spending their weekends at home with their families more often than they are getting pissed with the lads and looking for a quick shag, so advice about enthusiastic consent and not walking too closely behind a woman aren't really relevant.
I've re-read the thread and have hopefully found all the areas discussed so far, and I've tried to summarise the advice and recommendations and provide my own where none have been given.
Intervening when you see harassment/assault occurring
I saw some really interesting advice on Twitter in the days following the discovery of Sarah Everard's body. If you see someone being harassed, don't go up to the harasser and say "stop", go up to the harasser and pretend you know them. "Hi, long time no see. Didn't we go to school together? What have you been up to?" or something. Distract and disarm them, and let the woman get away. You can always apologise for the mistaken identity, but the key is to give the woman the opportunity to escape. If you've misread the situation then a simple apology for mistaken identity will end things pretty quickly.
A female colleague or friend tells you someone you know is creepy
First off, believe them. We have spent most of our lives honing our 'gut instinct' to identify and avoid creepy guys. Then, I'd recommend watching the creepy guy and seeing if you can identify what they see. If you can't, that isn't because they are lying, but because you haven't developed your skills yet. Keep trying to see the world through our eyes. If you see creepy guy being creepy then call them out. If creepy guy is a work colleague then I'd recommend keeping a record of incidents and depending on the frequency and severity report to HR or their manager. If you're their manager then speak to them (following any office policies). It doesn't have to be anything formal, just a friendly word of advice that they will hopefully heed. If they don't then it may need escalating. If it's a friend then you don't need a paper trail, just speak to them privately and let them know that their behaviour is making - unnamed - female friends uncomfortable and they need to be more mindful of their behaviour. If they continue to creep out your female friends then reconsider your friendship. Consequences are important.
Recognise that just because you don't see the dodgy behaviour it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Harassers and abusers are clever. They know how to put up fronts and keep people on their side. I recommend reading
this piece to get some insight into how serious workplace harassment can occur.
#NotAllMen is mean to men
I get why men don't like this. It tars you all with the same brush, makes out like you're all potential rapists when you're not. What I don't understand is why you get angry at women and not the men who make it necessary.
Why is it necessary? Because, as hopefully the anecdotes in this thread have shown if nothing else, women experience varying levels of harassment and assault on a regular basis from men of all backgrounds and until it happens we don't know where it's coming from. WE DON'T KNOW. All we know is that in the group of people we call 'men' there are a subset of them who will, given the chance, make us at best feel uncomfortable, and at worst kill us. Most of us aren't living in a state of constant heightened vigilance as a result (well, most of us don't
feel we are but when you've done something for most of your life I don't know how you can objectively judge tbh) but we are constantly bombarded with advice on how to stay safe and are well aware that if we make a mistake it will be us who gets the vast majority of the blame.
Do you remember back in the mid-90s when email started being something for the masses, all those 'chain emails' that you'd get. Women go
loads.
This was one of the first ones I ever got, and I got it a lot. We were advised to forward it to all our female friends and family members to keep them safe. The very first piece of information is,
The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed . They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.
Now, I shouldn't need to tell you that the email is bollocks, there's never been a survey of rapists like this and there's nothing about hair as a factor in rape. But what I will tell you is that I've had long hair since I was a child and when I was planning on travelling for my gap year I seriously considered cutting my hair as a result of this. In the end I didn't, because it felt like it would have meant they'd won without even doing anything, and I still have long hair, but how many men have had to consider the length of their hair in terms of their safety? I doubt it's many (and I'm not talking about when working with equipment, I'm talking about just being out and about, living your life).
So, what can you do about #NotAllMen? My advice would be to stop getting so defensive. Recognise that when you say #NotAllMen women read this as you:
- refusing to acknowledge that gender violence happens too often.
- taking the focus off the men who are violent and/or misogynistic.
- refusing to acknowledge that even good guys can enable a problem.
- making the conversation about men and semantics instead of the epidemic levels of violence against women.
[paraphrased from
here]
We KNOW it's not all men. The problem is we don't know
which men and because of that we have to treat you all cautiously.
How to interact with women respectfully
In professional situations act professionally:
- do not proposition them unless you have received clear signals that they are interested.
- don't steel our ideas - if we say something in a meeting that gets ignored despite being good, don't claim it as your own, say "I thought that fishnut's idea about x was really good, maybe we should try that"
- keep a check on your attitudes. If your female boss gives you a tight deadline or something, do you silently call her a bitch? If a female colleague comes to you with a problem do you dismiss her concerns or do you take them seriously? If a female colleague makes a mistake do you make a bigger deal of it that you would if it were a male colleague's mistake? Do you complain about female colleagues in gendered ways?
- keep a check on the attitudes of male colleagues - do they do any of the above? If so, call them out.
In all situations:
- do not touch a woman without consent.
- recognise the power imbalance that comes with size and strength. What you see as a reassuring holding of a hand can be felt as someone ready to restrain you.
- don't talk over us.
How to talk to men about this stuff
- Normalise discussions about sex and relationships. Not in the "hur hur I'd like to f.ck that ass" lad way, but in a way that allows the expression and recognition of emotions and that it's ok to have them!
- recognise toxic masculinity exists and call it out when you see it in your own interactions. By 'call it out' I don't mean be aggressive, but acknowledge it and if possible have a discussion about why they have said what they said.
- recognise and try to reject oneupmanship and encourage your friends to do the same.
- if your friends are all men then ask yourself why - are you actively excluding women or are you making them unwelcome?
- in your all-male groups keep an eye out for causal denigration of women - body-shaming women, rating them, saying whether or not you'd have sex with them, calling them bitches, dismissing their views, saying they overreact or are hysterical, etc - and if you see it call it out.
- if you have friends who think that the gender pay gap is bollocks, or women exaggerate the amount of harassment they receive, or whatever, then have a conversation with them. Do the research on these issues, come back armed with evidence, and show them they're wrong. It's a conversation, not an argument, and it won't be done in one day, but take the time and you can change minds.
How to talk to children about this stuff
- Stop blaming girls for the actions of boys.
- If you see other adults doing this then challenge them.
- check that you're not accidentally reinforcing gender stereotypes at home. Is it your daughter who helps mummy with the cooking while your son's out in the shed helping you?
- teach your kids not to unquestioningly accept people in authority. Abusers can and do seek out positions of authority in order to gain cover.
How to engage with discussions about this stuff
- Don't try and deflect attention because you're finding things uncomfortable. As
Tessa K pointed out,
When violent crimes against men by men are reported, women don't start saying 'What about us?' whereas whenever violence against women is reported, as on this occasion most definitely, men pipe up about attacks on men because they have to make it about them.
Violence against men* needs attention but if the only times you think about it are when violence against women gets mentioned then are you really interested in reducing violence or are you just trying to shut down a conversation?
- recognise that this is ultimately a problem of power and the way men want to control women. Catcalling, for example, is not a way to get a woman's attention so that she'll go out with the guy or have sex with him, it's the human version of the dog pissing on the lamppost. This is MY territory, not yours, is what he's actually saying. Sending dickpics isn't just a socially awkward way of trying to date someone. Again, it's the digital equivalent of pissing on the lamppost.
- if a comment or an article doesn't speak to you, there's no need for you to tell the world. Not everything is about you, and it's ok for something to feel irrelevant. If you feel the need to give your opinion on everything then ask yourself why that is.
- if you get called out for misunderstanding something or getting something wrong don't get defensive. Don't say "this is why I never get involved in these conversations" or "I'm just going to leave". Making mistakes is how we learn. So learn. While I can't speak for any of the other women here, I know my intention is not to scare all the men away. My intention is to get you to recognise the hugeness of the problem and realise that you are integral to fixing it. You, as men have a huge amount of power, far more than we have. Disengaging from the conversation is the last thing we want you to do!
- asking questions is great and are encouraged, but if you're just asking questions without taking the time to do your own research then ask yourself why. Would you accept this in any other thread? Or do you expect people to put in some work themselves? You know how to use Google and Google Scholar, you know how to identify good and bad information, you know how to read and interpret data, so go do that. Don't expect it to be presented to you on a platter. Women don't get some special access to information because we're women. We put in the time to learn about this stuff. I've spent the last 7+ years reading and researching on various aspects of feminism. I still know hardly anything but I'm happy to share what little I do know. What I'd rather not do is have to repeatedly go over the same old talking points again and again crafting individualised replies because if a post doesn't speak to someone 100% it gets dismissed as irrelevant. Think about the amount of labour your asking women to put in and how much you're willing to put in, and ask yourself if it's an equitable distribution.
* Other topics available