Rewilding and habitat restoration

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jimbob
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by jimbob » Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:42 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:14 pm
There's a chapter on ragwort in Isabella Tree's book. It was very controversial with the locals too. But it's great for biodiversity https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ll-of-life

At least in terms of birds and insects it's one of the most biodiverse sites in the country, eg supporting more Turtle Doves than a lot of decades-old RSPB projects, huge numbers of Purple Emperor butterflies, etc.

I suspect initial reactions are strongly influenced by shifting baseline syndrome, as it looks very different to typical UK management regimes.
Dad's comment was that there'd need to be a lot of Cinnabar Months for all that ragwort. It was the fact that it was so dominant and with ryegrass (cannot remember what type) as the overwhelming flora compared to some of the grasslands he or my brother have assessed.

It does seem to be good for birds though
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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jimbob
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by jimbob » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:57 pm

First beaver cub in Cheshire for 400 years, video in tweet

https://twitter.com/cameranatalie/statu ... 8jV1JwkOIA
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Fishnut
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Fishnut » Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:03 pm

jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:57 pm
First beaver cub in Cheshire for 400 years, video in tweet

https://twitter.com/cameranatalie/statu ... 8jV1JwkOIA
In case you missed it, I've made a thread for all the best beaver news. They're a fantastic ray of hope and cuteness in an otherwise dismal world.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:47 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:03 pm
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:57 pm
First beaver cub in Cheshire for 400 years, video in tweet

https://twitter.com/cameranatalie/statu ... 8jV1JwkOIA
In case you missed it, I've made a thread for all the best beaver news. They're a fantastic ray of hope and cuteness in an otherwise dismal world.
And yet still fairly controversial amongst old-school conservationists.

All for them personally.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

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Grumble
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Grumble » Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:51 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 8:26 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 4:15 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:49 am


I have - it's a very good book. MacDonald knows his onions (and indeed birds), explains the status quo very well and has an enormous, ambitious vision for the future.

I won't post any spoilers, but I'd be interested to hear what you think when you've read it.
I’m partway through, and I hope I’m through the most depressing bits. It is certainly making me very sad - I knew we were nature deprived in the U.K. but it’s being laid out in great detail just how bad it is.

Having to read in small chunks because it’s a bit much.
It does get brighter, IIRC, as it moves on to discussing what could be, with a few interesting case studies from around Europe.

But I know what you mean. I rarely read much "pop" natural history /ecology stuff these days, because frankly looking at it all as a day job is more than enough.

I will say, though, that one of the things that first wowed me in Portugal is that it's not so depleted yet. There's still fallow fields and scruffy corners and tumbledown houses and silvopasture etc, and there's just birds everywhere. What strikes me in the UK (and similar places, like the Netherlands) is the loss of abundance as much as anything.

I do remain hopeful that we can turn things around, though. There seems to be an appetite for it, and lots of smart folk working hard.
It has got a bit brighter. Despite currently (as in the section I’m reading now) discussing grouse moors. He does seem to be fairly in favour of hunting as a rule, but in the context of it providing jobs in a genuinely wild countryside.
A bit churlish

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Woodchopper
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:14 am

I don’t know what kind of hunting he means, but as we’ve discussed earlier without a population of wolves humans will need to control deer numbers

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Grumble
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Grumble » Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:37 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:14 am
I don’t know what kind of hunting he means, but as we’ve discussed earlier without a population of wolves humans will need to control deer numbers
Definitely strongly for culling, but also in favour of big game hunting of red deer and elk, which aren’t yet reintroduced, as a way of bringing money for managing the land. I think this is fairly mainstream for conservation in many places, but not necessarily here in the U.K.
A bit churlish

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:15 am

Grumble wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:37 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:14 am
I don’t know what kind of hunting he means, but as we’ve discussed earlier without a population of wolves humans will need to control deer numbers
Definitely strongly for culling, but also in favour of big game hunting of red deer and elk, which aren’t yet reintroduced, as a way of bringing money for managing the land. I think this is fairly mainstream for conservation in many places, but not necessarily here in the U.K.
The introduction of predators like wolves and lynx also changes herbivores' behaviour in a way that lessens long-terms impacts on vegetation regeneration: as predators learn where the herbivores like to hang out and hunt there more often, the herbivores in turn have to keep shifting around, sparing more areas intensive grazing. So even without drastically reducing numbers, rewilding can lessen the negative impacts of deer.

This is a concept called the landscape of fear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecology_of_fear_(concept) which was demonstrated quite neatly in Yellowstone following wolf reintroduction.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:30 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:15 am
Grumble wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:37 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:14 am
I don’t know what kind of hunting he means, but as we’ve discussed earlier without a population of wolves humans will need to control deer numbers
Definitely strongly for culling, but also in favour of big game hunting of red deer and elk, which aren’t yet reintroduced, as a way of bringing money for managing the land. I think this is fairly mainstream for conservation in many places, but not necessarily here in the U.K.
The introduction of predators like wolves and lynx also changes herbivores' behaviour in a way that lessens long-terms impacts on vegetation regeneration: as predators learn where the herbivores like to hang out and hunt there more often, the herbivores in turn have to keep shifting around, sparing more areas intensive grazing. So even without drastically reducing numbers, rewilding can lessen the negative impacts of deer.

This is a concept called the landscape of fear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecology_of_fear_(concept) which was demonstrated quite neatly in Yellowstone following wolf reintroduction.
Yes, though wolves tend to be controversial. The Swedes are currently discussing culling about a half of their population of circa 400. A large wolf population may not be feasible.

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Grumble
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Re: Rewilding and habitat restoration

Post by Grumble » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:29 pm

Forests in Iceland?
https://youtu.be/K-r2EetCtO0
A bit churlish

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